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Calacanis Cast Beta #14 - Transcript


Special Guest: Steve Rubel (Edelman)











*Note - by popular demand there is now an independent audio feed!


CalacanisCast Beta14



Jason: Hello Everybody. This is Jason Calacanis here. You’re listening to, or maybe even watching the Calacanis Cast Beta, is it, what number is this gonna be Tyler, 13, 14?


Tyler: 14.


Jason: I guess it’s gonna be number 14. I keep losing track of the Podcasts. We’re upping the production of the Podcasts, as you can see we have a camera and microphones.


Steve: It’s very impressive.


Jason: And we have a cardboard board.


Steve: This is excellent, is this gonna be like a green screen, or blue screen?


Jason: Yeah, actually we’re gonna put like Niagara Falls behind there, we can have like a romantic honeymoon moment here.


Jason: So my guest is Steve Rubel. Or is it Ruble?


Steve: Actually it is Rubel.


Jason: because people say Rubel all the time.


Steve: Well, they probably say worse things than that.


Jason: So, I got it right.


Jason: Steve obviously is one of the first PR people to take on blogging. He actually did it… you did it quite authentically!


Steve: Thank you.


Jason: You actually did it like a real person as opposed to like a normal PR person who are all like robots and on message.


Steve: There were a lot of people before who did it before me who were….


Jason: PR people.


Steve: Yeah, who did it normal.


Jason: There were some who did it. But you did it well. And you became the most popular PR blogger. And then you went from some rinky-dink PR firm to Edelman which is the largest one in the world, right?


Steve: Well, not quite.


Jason: Am I basically summing it up, or no?


Steve: If you’re gonna be nice


Jason: What was the firm you were at before?


Steve: The people who I worked for for five years.


Jason: I’m joking, I don’t remember their name.


Steve: Their names is Cooper Katz, and they were a twenty-three person outfit.


Jason: Okay, so they were a boutique.


Steve: Yes. And then I went to a firm a hundred times the size.


Jason: So you went from a boutique to a big one.


Steve: A hundred times the size.


Jason: A hundred times the size, right. That’s twenty-three hundred people.


Steve: About twenty-five hundred actually.


Jason: Twenty-five hundred people at Edelman?


Steve: That’s right.


Jason: So before we get too far into this, let me just say, this very Podcast, or I guess it’s not even a Podcast, I guess it’s a vlog, is hosted by and sponsored by Podtech.net. You know Podtech, right?


Steve: Of course, yes.


Jason: Who’s on Podtech, what shows do you watch on Podtech?


Steve: The Scobelizer show, the Scobel show!


Jason: You have to watch the Scobel show, its’ great.


Steve: And Jeremy’s show, I forget his last, I can’t pronounce his last name.


Jason: Who?


Steve: The new guy they hired from Hitachi. O . . . Jeremy O.


Jason: Yeah. So anyway, everyone knows Podtech, Podtech, Podtech.net. Lots of good stuff on there. It’s actually Podtech.net, that’s just my little thing, I say it three times.


Steve: So we have to like, how many mentions do we have to have?


Jason: No, you don’t have to mention it at all, they’re very cool, but . . .


Steve: There’s no product placement at all.


Jason: No. And Go Daddy’s a sponsor. You like Go Daddy, right?


Steve: Yes, of course.


Jason: You love Go Daddy?


Steve: I love Go Daddy.


Jason: I knew you did!


Steve: Their commercials are winners.


Jason: The commercials are huge. And if you sign up for a domain name, you can just type in Jason 1, “Jason”, the number “1”, and you get like ten percent off, and you know, all the sponsorship money . . .


Steve: So it’s ten percent off, let me understand that.


Jason: So it’s like ten percent off your . . .


Steve: Ten percent off like a $5 domain?


Jason: Yeah, or an $8,95 domain, you save like a buck.


Steve: So that’s about fifty cents?


Jason: Well I think you save like a buck, but people buy like ten domains at a time.


Steve: That’s true.


Jason: So it could be like $10 bucks.


Steve: That’s true.


Jason: And I own two thousand domains.


Steve: See I can just . . .


Jason: So if I was saving a buck, I’d save $2 grand a year, if I had been listening to my show and used that code.


Steve: That’s a good point.


Jason: So it could be big, big savings. So anyway, good that it’s sponsored. But you know all that money goes to the Bay Ridge Preparatory School’s opportunity fund which basically puts kids who are disadvantaged in private school and changes their lives. So we did two kids this year who are going to private school for four or five years each.


Steve: Wow.


Jason: Done, paid for, like $15 grand a year.


Steve: That’s incredible, you should be proud.


Jason: I mean it’s crazy, it’s huge shit. It’s the power of media. Well, anyway. I just have to give Go Daddy and Podtech all the credit for that, ‘cause those guys believe in the podcast and now are off to the races. We’re gonna do a couple of these a week. So you work at Edelman?


Steve: Yes.


Jason: And… what’s the story, Edelman is like screwing up big time? And I mean you’re supposed to be . . .


Steve: You reach for the jugular, don’t’ you?


Jason: But we have to talk about this, ‘cause everyone’s gonna go, “Jason, you talked Edelman?” What the hell is going on over at Edelman? They hire you, and then they make a bunch of like obvious mistakes!


Steve: It’s like, you know, Jason’s like, Jason does the Barbara Walters interviews.


Jason: I’m trying to make you cry.


Steve: With all the ex-cons who were there and who were wearing the orange like he’s wearing now.


Jason: The jump suit.


Steve: And they’re saying “So how are you doing? So did you really kill her?”


Jason: Also I gotta turn this off ‘cause last time people complained about all the interference, and so I’m turning the handheld off. So that’s off.


Steve: No, truth?


Jason: Truth.


Steve: We had boo-boo’s.


Jason: We had a lot of boo-boo’s!


Steve: Well . . .


Jason: What the hell’s . . . Okay, so let’s go, should we go through with them, because you should explain what the hell’s going on?


Steve: We can go through to the degree I’m permitted to talk about them.


Jason: Okay. Let’s go through the first one, which I like which is the Microsoft one.


Steve: That was first? Okay.


Jason: The Vista one. The Microsoft Vista laptops.


Steve: Yes, right, okay.


Jason: Now I thought, you know my position on schwag and stuff like that.


Steve: Yes.


Jason: People should return the products, payola is not a good thing. And I thought it’s find to send people a Ferrari laptop, if it’s a review unit. Like my guys at enGadget, when I was running it, they could accept a review unit, but had to give it back within like, you know, a reasonable amount of time, whatever it takes to review it, some things take a day to review, some things take a week, some things take three months, but you know.


Steve: Okay, but . . .


Jason: So they didn’t specify, then the back and forth.


Steve: No, I think it is, well okay, you know, I’m not gonna speak for them, and I can’t.


Jason: I just want to say this is sponsored by FatBlogging, we could have some French fries.


Steve: Justin comes in (inaudible), I’m saying okay.


Jason: Backed up by a little Diet Coke.


Steve: How many more tables am I gonna see in the blog? I do want to talk about Fatblogging, ‘cause it’s something I’m hoping to inspire you, ‘cause I don’t wanna toss the lot away.


Jason: Okay.


Steve: But no, look, it was a situation where we gave out laptops… and Microsoft worked with some bloggers and we worked with a handful of others… And you know, honestly, the feeling is, I mean, now, I think we learned, everything we do, we learn something.


Jason: Right.


Steve: Okay, everything we do we learn. And I don’t know if necessarily if people need to give product back, you know. I think they always should disclose their received product, okay? But I don’t know if they have to give it back or feel that they should give it back. Now I understand around the ramifications…


Jason: Now but why would you give somebody a $3,000 Ferrari laptop? I mean it’s obviously to gain influence.


Steve: Well, it was for them to gain experience and try it out. I mean honestly.


Jason: No, but I’m saying if people keep it, you say you thought it was okay for people to keep it. But isn’t that like buying them? paying for them? It’s a little insulting, right?


Steve: And how is that different than a radio sweepstakes, how is that different from a….

Jason: Well it’s different because people are writing about it.


Steve: Okay. But how is that different, you know, how is that different from giving away tickets to things? and just in general, I mean, radio giveaways? I’m not, let’s say that there’s no writing, and see you’re for sure there’s a lot of gripe, I mean think that there is. Now when the EnGadgets of the world are just, you know, when you get to that level, you are on a level, to me, where there are Church/State lines, okay?


Jason: So you’re saying you should have ethics if you’re big, but not if you’re small?


Steve: No, I think you always should have ethics and you should always disclose. But the point I’m making is that I think that when you’re starting to take advertising and it’s your primary source of revenue, it’s a game change. It just is. Okay, and then you have to think about that church/state law, that somebody with a hundred readers does not need to think about.


Jason: Right.


Steve: So I think that the only law that exists in the blogosphere I think right now is common law. It’s what people decide. And events like this set a law. Now clearly a law was set, and we now know what the rules of engagement are.


Jason: Yeah. Would you do it again the same way you did it?


Steve: No.


Jason: What would you change?


Steve: We would immediately ask people to disclose, and we give them options on what to do, which is: you could give it to a charity, you could keep it, or you could send it back.


Jason: Interesting. Well I disagree about the keeping it.


Steve: But you should always disclose what you do.


Jason: Well I think everybody agrees with the disclosure part, so that’s . . .


Steve: Right. But that was a major problem I think right there.


Jason: That was a major problem of it. But also you guys did it like… it didn’t seem like anyone got a real heads up, they just showed up for some people, so I think maybe it was a communication error too, like a lack of communication upfront.


Steve: Yeah there, well I think there was . . . Yes, I think there was some of that, where we should have said “This is coming in the mail.”


Jason: And here’s how it works.


Steve: That’s right, so . . .


Jason: So alright, whatever, not a big deal. But what about this other one with, there’s another Microsoft one with… you hired people, you . . .


Steve: Let’s just get all the skeletons out of the closet. Should we get, I don’t even get any warm up. I don’t even get like, you know, it’s not even a ramp, you know, it’s like I got put here and I got pushed off the cliff.


Jason: But wait, you went to work for the big boys.


Steve: Yeah.


Jason: So big boys have to answer big boy questions.


Steve: Yeah.


Jason: What happened with Microsoft and the hiring of the people for the Wikipedia? So let’s talk about the Microsoft Astroturfing one. Which was


Steve: That one, I don’t know, which one was that? Oh, with the . . .


Jason: With the Wikipedia.


Steve: We’re not involved.


Jason: So what was the other scandal that you guys were involved with?


Steve: Oh okay, well . . .


Jason: You get to present it. Which one was the other one? I’m going to remember shortly.


Steve: Wal*Mart.


Jason: Wal*Mart, ah yes, the fake, “I love my boss at Wal*Mart Stuff.


Steve: There was a couple of blogs that were not fully disclosed the way they should have been.


Steve: Right. So you had blogs that were fake people, and you guys did it. And so but this was another . . .


Jason: Those were your words, not mine.


Steve: Well okay, somebody at Edelman did fake blogs.


Jason: Richard if you’re watching at home, I want you to know that you know, Jason… this is all an act, this is all slick. We were actually . . .


Steve: But this is on the cover of the New York Times, you gotta be able to talk about this one, right?


Steve: Of course. Look, it’s in my Wikipedia entry, it’s gonna be on my tombstone. You know, it’s gonna say “Here lies Steve Rubel.”, you know…


Jason: But you didn’t have your hands on this one. This was some other group inside of…


Steve: Well no, actually . . . Okay, so it’s a big company, right?


Jason: Right.


Steve: So I think that no, I did not personally have my hands on it. But I think that now, since then, we’ve implemented a number of different . . .


Jason: Controls.


Steve: That’s one way to say it - or different measures. For example we had a lot of training for our folks where we actually walked them through all the ethical codes and how it works. We have a vetting process for programs. And I think we, you know, we didn’t have that all in place originally.

Jason: Yeah, I mean I saw some of those blogs, and I was just like “Ugghhh.” But everybody knows don’t create fake blogs, faux blogs, that’s 101. So you do a fake blog in 2007, when you woke up that morning and saw it, you must have been like “Awww!”


Steve: That was a horrible week. I mean that was a horrible week for myself and my CEO, Richard Edelman.


Jason: Right, ‘cause Richard actually, is like, he sort of gets it. He’s got a blog.


Steve: He actually gets it, he gets it a lot.


Jason: He blogs.


Steve:: Oh yeah, he gets it.


Jason: So he blogs, so he knows you don’t do fake blogs.


Steve: And he’s friends with Dan Gilmore and David Weinberger and them.


Jason: He’s got some cred.


Steve: That’s right.


Jason: And so then his company . . .


Jason: So Wal*Mart pays his company to do it, and somebody screwed up. Did somebody get fired or something? What happened?


Steve: No one got fired.


Jason: But somebody got a big talking to.


Steve: People are allowed to make mistakes, are they not?


Jason: People are allowed to make mistakes, you got me on that one.


Steve: Okay.


Jason: I would have fired their asses! If you worked for me and you did a fake blog, I would have fired you! No, anyway…


Steve: So it’s a little downhill from here?


Jason: It’s all downhill from here. And listen, it’s my new Producer, Tyler, he just, he tells me “Go for the jugular!”, I go for the jugular! Okay, so anyway, but actually your boss does get it.


Steve: He does totally get it.


Jason: And he writes a blog. And he fell on the sword actually on his blog, he was like “We screwed up, we’re dumb.”, blah, blah, blah, “We’ll be better.”


Steve: Absolutely.


Jason: Which is basically all you can do today in PR, right, I mean . . .


Steve: Well I think what are we supposed to do, I mean we’re gonna sit there and smile all the way though it? I mean it was a terrible week.


Jason: And listen, if I was at AOL right now, I mean I left in December, but if I was, you could equally come back to me and say, “Jason, AOL released search data and invaded people’s privacy. AOL is hard to uninstall the software. And there was that Malware for AOL that we did. And the guy couldn’t call up on the phone and unsubscribe.”


Steve: Right.


Jason: So I know what it’s like to work at a big company.


Steve: Anytime you’re on the front line.


Jason: We had twenty thousand employees, three huge screw-ups.


Steve: Right.


Jason: And you know, like I was like the Web 2.0 guy at AOL, it’s probably pretty parallel to you, I was like the Web 2.0 guy at AOL.


Steve: On a personal level it’s like that, but I . . .


Jason: And you wake up it’s like getting punched in the stomach. It’s like “Oh, what did we do!”


Steve: But I accept, because it’s like, you know, you can’t, there’s a lot of fun to my job too that comes with that external visibility, okay.


Jason: Right.


Steve: Like this, okay?


Jason: You’re the second most visible person at Edelman, I mean that’s the truth, isn’t it?


Steve: But on a hierarchal level: I’m not, you know?


Jason: Scobel was very visible at Microsoft, okay?


Jason: So what’s that dynamic like? Do people in the company like, I mean why is this guy getting interviewed by Calacanis? Or being picked up at the New York Times? Why does he get so much attention?


Steve: They will after this interview! After this interview I think I’ll get a few emails.


Jason: I mean people will be, we just said, everybody’s got to be transparent and honest about it.


Steve: I’m just joking.


Jason: I was honest about when I was at AOL.


Steve: I mean I’m . . .


Jason: When AOL had the problems, remember the search?


Steve: Of course, that was huge.


Jason: We had a problem with search.


Steve: But AOL’s a much larger company, okay.


Jason: Fifteen thousand people.


Steve: There you go.


Jason: Twenty thousand people.


Steve: Yeah, no, it’s a much larger company. But you’re right, I mean I am in the community, okay.


Jason: So what is it like inside a big company, ‘cause I know what it was like for me? But I’m interested in hearing from you, you come into a company, what are you, like a VP?


Steve: SVP.


Jason: You’re an SVP.


Steve: Right.


Jason: So there’s a bunch of EVP’s above you.


Steve: And General Managers.


Jason: Then there’s General Managers and Presidents. So there’s gotta be what, between you and Richard Edelman, how many people, a hundred?


Steve: Well physically only two ‘cause my office is near him. But in terms of how many levels?


Jason: There’s gotta be a hundred people between you and him.


Steve: I would, yeah . . .


Jason: Fifty people maybe?


Steve: The question always is how many people have to die?


Jason: Right for you to be number two, it’d be fifty people, a hundred people?


Steve: I think there would have to be . . .


Jason: So you’re number fifty.


Steve: It might be five-hundred for all I know. It’s a lot.


Jason: Let’s say arguably it’s a hundred.


Steve: It’s a lot.


Jason: So it’s a hundred people, but you are the second highest profile guy. It’s sort of like Scobel became the fifth highest profile guy, even though he was, you know, three thousand people away from being CEO. I mean not that you could ever see Scobel being CEO of Microsoft. I mean that’s just out of the question period. But, he was that far away.


Steve: And yes, so I mean I am visible.


Jason: So what’s it like?


Steve: Well it’s great. I mean because it allows, I mean first of all, it allows me to really use it to meet people who are gonna help the company. So I get to go meet with store reps, I get to meet with a lot of big companies, I get to meet influencers, all with the idea of figuring out what the needs of the company are and developing products and services. So I’m a product guy, okay. And I also do a lot of evangelizing and talking and meeting with clients. And so the exposure I get through all the different channels helps me gain into entry conversations.


Jason: You get the meetings that maybe they wouldn’t get.


Steve: Well they would get them anyway. But I think they would get the meetings, ‘cause they have all the clients, but the difference, well at least on the client front, I think with the partners and things like that… They would still get the meetings because they’re a big company. And Richard knows everyone. I mean Richard, for God’s sake, goes to ___ every year, okay, and he gets invited. So that’s, as you know, is a . .


Jason: Is not an easy ticket.


Steve: Not an easy ticket. He knows, you know, he knows everybody. So but what I have I think is the connections to the community, and that allows me to see what’s kind of coming next and to bring it in. So I think my profile, while it lasts, who knows how long it’s gonna last….


Jason: Yeah, true, it could be fleeting.


Steve: You’ve been on that see-saw, right?


Jason: Yeah.


Steve: That’s right?


Jason: Yeah, I’ve been here today.


Steve: Did you take a lull?


Jason: I purposefully took a lull. I tried to get, you know, out of the spotlight a little bit recently. And it’s hard actually after you’ve been in it, ‘cause then you don’t blog for a little bit, and when you do blog, everybody gets really hyper-focused on it.


Steve: That’s right.


Jason: It’s actually a problem.. Like I can’t casually blog anymore, because . . . I had that problem at AOL too, ‘cause I would casually say something . . .


Steve: Oh well I’ve had that happen to me also.


Jason: And you know, like I casually said at one point like, “AOL Search has so much advertising on it that people at AOL don’t use AOL Search, they use Google.”


Steve: Right.


Jason: And some guy put it in a research report, you know, like a Wall Street research report! You know, Calacanis SVP says, you know, “Even AOL people don’t use AOL Search.”


Steve: So in our case we have I don’t know, like 500 clients, okay. So everybody is either a client or a competitor of one of our clients. And it is difficult, so that’s another line I have to figure out how to walk, is, you know, what . . . Can I go . . . You know, Scobel likes to talk about he membrane when he was with Microsoft. He said “How far can you push the membrane, how afar can you go and remain credible to the community while still remaining credible within the organization?” And that’s every day.


Jason: It is hard.


Steve: That’s every day a narrow walk.


Jason: It is hard. But it’s hard. People used to say that to me sometimes at AOL, like “Why are you blogging about our problems?” And I’m like, “Well when I did Weblogs Inc., I blogged about our problems, and people told me how to fix them.”


Steve: Right, and that’s the way it should work.


Jason: It was the greatest way to . . .


Steve: But when you have a big company and you have a lot of stakeholders and you have a lot of . . .


Jason: Stakeholders as in people who don’t want you talking about their mistakes.


Steve: It could be everything.


Jason: That would be your translation.


Steve: It could be your clients, you know. You know, I mean it’s amazing. And in a service business like ours, we have so many clients. You know, why are you all similar? Because you have a lot of advertisers.


Jason: Yeah, we have a lot of advertisers, yeah, interesting.


Steve: But it’s an adventure, And I love it!


Jason: Right. And you’re at a big company. So who are the big clients?


Steve: Well we mentioned two, Microsoft and Wal*Mart. Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Nissan, Fox Interactive.


Jason: So you represent MySpace?


Steve: We do. The agency does, yes.


Jason: You know what I find interesting about MySpace is, did you know that like 85% of kids who get molested, it’s by somebody they know?


Steve: Okay, I’m like… where are we going now? I’m like . . .


Jason: No, I’m just saying, it’s like People who they know. So if 85% of it is by teachers and, you know, parents and uncles and brothers and sisters and whatever, grandparents, there’s all kinds of kids getting abused…


Steve: Right.


Jason: It’s s serious topic. And I’m not bringing it up in jest, but if 85% of that’s occurring by family members, it seems like in the press that 99% is occurring by MySpace members or via MySpace.


Steve: Well it’s a hot topic, you know.


Jason: It’s so ridiculous.


Steve: It’s a hot topic ‘cause it’s like, you know . . .


Jason: Danah Boyd pointed this out, I’m not, I shouldn’t take credit for her work, Danah Boyd is a brilliant person. She had a great, you know, graph on our site showing the percentage of like, you know, whatever, I don’t know the exact percentage, 18% of abuse to kids occurs by teachers. And it’s like MySpace gets so blamed! It’s like what do you advise on MySpace, what should they do when they’re getting disproportionately blamed for a societal problem?


Steve: Well, I’ll be honest, I really can’t speak to their problems, I mean that’s their business to do. But you know, in any time you have a mania like that, it always becomes, like people wanna be able to peg it to something, you know, that is new or different. You know, so but I really can’t, I can’t, Jason, I just can’t.


Jason: I know. He’s like a very transparent blogger. He can’t even talk about this important . . .


Steve: I can’t talk about our clients? Come on, without their permission?


Jason: No. Okay, good enough, good enough. You don’t speak.


Steve: You’ve been through that.


Jason: Fair enough. Okay, so let’s talk about some other things on the web, let’s see what you think about these things. PayPerPost?


Steve: Oh boy, that’s bad.


Jason: It’s bad.


Steve: Yeah I do think that’s bad.


Jason: Right. You think it’s bad to try to buy influence.


Steve: Yes. Now I know you may try to say, “How is that different than giving away product?” I mean that’s . . .


Jason: Well no, you said your view of product is, you said your view of giving away product is similar to a contest.


Steve: That’s right.


Jason: ‘Cause you don’t expect them to write about it.


Steve: Correct.


Jason: If they do . . .


Steve: But if they do . . .


Jason: That’s fine too.


Steve: But you ask them . . .


Jason: To disclose.


Steve: Where they got it, who got, you know, what the terms were, all that kind of stuff. No, PayPerPost I think is blatantly bad. I mean it’s just, it’s something where, you know, there you’re literally buying influence and there’s nothing . . .


Jason: Right. And the people who have to buy influence tend to be losers in my mind.


Steve: Just the credibility of everybody who’s involved there goes down. So what’s the win there, what’s the business model, I don’t get it?


Jason: You don’t get it either.


Steve: Unless it’s just like really low level people, like you know, like you see those . . .


Jason: It is, actually, you know what the thing is? They have a lot of pharmaceutical kind of quasi vitamins like Hoodia, Weight Loss.


Steve: Yeah, not the big pharmas though.


Jason: No, but like weird, like I don’t know, like maybe not like real pharmas, but like pills to take to lose weight or whatever.


Steve: It stinks.


Jason: I think false my view is PayPerPost is gonna get hit next for doing false medical claims. I mean people could get . . .


Steve: Well and also the FCC came down on some of this, didn’t they?


Jason: They started looking into it supposedly because, go figure, they don’t want a covert marketing, and you know, confusing consumers.


Jason: But I mean imagine like one of these people gets paid, you know, some twenty-five-year-old gets paid some to write about some diet pill, they write about it, somebody takes it and somebody has a heart attack and dies.


Steve: Well I mean and actually the pharma industry is very concerned with adverse effects, which is just you know, somebody having some sort of negative reaction to something that they took. And they actually have to track all that and monitor that and report it to the FDA. And so that’s a big reason why they haven’t been engaging so much in word of mouth practices, ‘cause they’re nervous about. . .


Jason: Yeah, not exactly the kind of stuff you wanna do word of mouth.


Steve: It’s hard to do, because you know, if somebody comes and leaves a blog comment, “I got, you know, whatever.”


Jason: So what do you think of this whole buzz marketing category, I mean should companies really try to get buzz going or should they just make great products?


Steve: I’m struggling with the words Jason, I’m struggling with the words. I don’t like the words “social media”, because I think that all media has gone social.


Jason: Right? OK? Including the New York Times or . . .


Steve: Including the New York Times . . .


Jason: And CNN.


Steve: And where does then EnGadget live? In that is it social media or main stream media? Well they take advertising, they plot at AOL. Well they started out as a blog.


Jason: And they still blog like a blog.


Steve: Well there’s kangaroos and there’s lions, and they mate in this world! You know, that’s kind of what I think.


Jason: I have no idea what that analogy was, but I like it!


Steve: Well it is, just think about it.


Jason: I’m trying not to. So what about Fatblogging? You said you wanted to talk to me about Fatblogging.


Steve: Fatblogging, I’m fascinated by your fat blogging. I am utterly fascinated by it.


Jason: Why?


Steve: By the way, I’m turning bright red and I feel it. And I think it’s . . .


Jason: No, no, don’t worry, we’ll soften it up. Tyler, where’s my producer? Soften that bleep out, take the curse words out, okay? Do both of those.


Steve: I can’t figure out if it’s the heat or it’s the lamp this way or it’s the heat this way or it’s the heat this way.


Jason: Make sure you bleep out that curse word out, I don’t wanna get that iTunes explicit. Make sure you say like “sugar:” You should do a voice-over of me like “sugar”.


Steve: How tall are you, that’s my first question?


Jason: I am 5’9”.


Steve: So you’re my height. OK.


Jason: Yes. And I peaked out at 207.


Steve: And you’re now what, 191?


Jason: 191, 192.


Steve: That’s very impressive.


Jason: I dropped 15 over the last year. I was 207 like at the peak of doing like the Weblogs inc. deal, you know, like and eating donuts and eating pizza.


Steve: As opposed to what you were eating before.


Jason: Well I ate a donut but I’ve been eating healthy. I’ve done 9 days in a row on the treadmill, I did 20 out of 28 days in February on the treadmill, ran over 47 miles.


Steve: I see the tables.


Jason: Not bad.


Steve: It’s very impressive. Okay.


Jason: So what are . . . you lost?


Steve: So I lost… twice in my life I lost a lot of weight. When I came out of college . . .


Jason: What was your peak weight?


Steve: My peak was 185, which for me was hefty, ‘cause I’ve just been thing all my life. And that was after college when I ate nothing but Big Macs in school. And then I lost it, and then I regained two-thirds of that back after 9/11.


Jason: Ah, got depressed?


Steve: Yeah.


Jason: Me too.


Steve: Well it was comfort food eating, you know.


Jason: Yeah, it was depressing in New York the year after that.


Steve: Were you in New York then?


Jason: Yeah. I left New York about a year, two years after 9/11. But I was very depressed for the year after that.


Steve: Well everybody was, the whole city was just, we were just so . . . And both times have been with Weight Watchers. So Weight Watchers, I love Weight Watchers.


Steve: Are they a client?


Jason: No, I don’t think so.


Steve: But you with Weight Watchers, you just ate whatever they told you to eat on the boxes?


Jason: No, no, that’s Jenny Craig I think.


Steve: Oh, that’s Jenny Craig. OK.


Jason: No, they got a great system where basically you eat what you want, and as for amounts, I’m not, you know, I don’t know deductions . . .


Jason: You eat what you want but they make you keep track of it.


Steve: They make you write down everything you eat. You eat what you want and then basically everything gets a point value.


Jason: The donut has 6 points.


Steve: Maybe more. And basically you would get, you get a certain allotment of points every day based on your weight and your height and your sex. So in your case, I don’t know what it would be, maybe 30 points or something like that.


Jason: Wow. So I may have just wiped through 10 my 30 points.


Steve: And to this day I still count points, as under maintenance where I just basically know . . .


Jason: Where you’re at.


Steve: Yeah, I don’t write it all down, but ballpark I know. . . When I travel it’s a little harder.


Jason: Travel is the worst.


Steve: Travel is the worst.


Jason: I am having such a hard time with travel. Although I’ve been doing the thing like where I’ll just go buy a sandwich at the thing, take the bread off and just eat the meat and the cheese, and then I’ll go get like a salad. It’s hard.


Steve: No cheese, no red meat, I take that all off.


Jason: But isn’t it amazing how the Fatblogging in just the last two weeks has become like a phenomenon?


Steve: It is fantastic. And I love the logo.


Jason: Somebody sent me a logo! I was like Okay, there’s a Fatblogging logo?


Steve: Now the Twitter and fat blogging could be a real interesting download.


Jason: Twitter’s gonna get interesting. I just signed up for Twitter today. If you don’t know what Twitter is, go to Twitter . . . I put a little Cairon on the bottom here that says “Twitter”.


Steve: A Cairon? Is that near Cairo, is that a suburb of Cairo?


Jason: I think a Cairon is the thing on the bottom, right, isn’t that a Cairon? I put a Cairon right down there that says “Twitter.com/Jason Calacanis”. Basically you sign up and then I send an SMS message. It’s just a brilliant service, the guy that invented blogger invented it.


Steve: Very smart.


Jason: He’s a smart guy. I didn’t think he was that smart when I first met him, being totally honest.


Steve: He’s very quiet.


Jason: He’s quiet. Then I read his blog, and he did Odeo and I was not impressed with Odeo, so I was like, I don’t know, maybe the guy was in the right place at a right time.


Steve: You figured he was a one-hit wonder?


Jason: Well you never know, people say that about me too.


Jason: But anyway, then I saw Twitter, and this guy’s obviously brilliant. And I’ve been reading his blog, and it’s actually really, he’s like a kick-ass entrepreneur, I like that guy.


Steve: Yeah.


Jason: Ev, you and I, we should hang sometime, me and you! But anyway, you go into Twitter . . .


Steve: Ev, we’ve probably hung out already, but I’ll hang with you next time.


Jason: Anyway, you type in 40404 and you send a little SMS message.


Steve: I do it through Google Talk actually.


Jason: You do it through Google Talk for instant messaging?


Steve: Right.


Jason: So anyway, you type in like you’re thing, and I could just type like “Hanging out with Steve Rubel eating donuts.” Boom, and then everybody on my list gets it.


Steve: Now okay, but think about that. Think about it as a support tool for you and your Fatblogging.


Jason: Right, exactly. I really want to eat a donut.


Steve: Right. No, don’t, don’t.


Jason: Someone tell me not.


Steve: I just, that’s right.


Jason: I’m gonna do that in Twitter Fatblogging.


Steve: You know what, I will be like your Twitter, I’ll be like your Guardian Angel, your Dr. Phil.


Jason: “Don’t do it Jason, don’t do eat the donuts.”


Jason: “I don’t care, Steve, I’m gonna eat the donuts!”


Jason: Since I lost weight the second time, which is now about four years ago, I feel like so much better. And I’m sure you will too. And the picture of you that you showed was great.


Steve: That was then, that was back when I was a little thinner.


Jason: Well you could see, I’m getting a little less chub, a little less chubby here.


Steve: Yeah?


Jason: I’ll get there; I’ll get there. So you’re having a good time.


Steve: I’m having a great time.


Jason: You know, and the question for me is, is PR even relevant anymore?


Steve: I think it is. I think we’re more relevant than ever, I do.


Jason: But you know, like I never do any PR. I get a ridiculous amount of PR. Mark Cuban doesn’t do any PR, doesn’t have a PR person, he gets a ton of PR.


Steve: Okay, hold on a second here, but you guys are anomalies, think about it. You know, I mean your case, you started three successful companies. The first time you launched your company you had PR, right?


Jason: Well I had a magazine! No


Jason: I didn’t have PR.


Steve: You never had a PR person?


Jason: In my life, I never had a PR person, ever!


Steve: Okay.


Jason: I did have an assistant who would take the requests and put them in a stack. But I never had like a PR person.


Steve: I think if you build a remarkable business, okay, then I think you don’t need it as much as you used to. So look at Google, they’ve never had PR firm in their entire history. You know, Mark, with all the stuff he’s done from Broadcast.com and then . . .


Jason: Right. To the best of my knowledge, he don’t have a PR…


Steve: No. I don’t think he believes in buying.


Jason: I don’t believe in it either. So I’m trying to figure out like with blogs and stuff like that, if you’re the CEO of a company and you blog and you Podcast and you talk about what you do, and it’s good, do you need a PR firm?


Steve: Okay, put the Kool-Aid down for a second, okay? Because I think in certain industries, NO. In the web 2.0 space, if you’re remarkable, NO. But let’s say there are five painkiller medications…


Jason: Right.


Steve: Okay, what’s the difference between all of them? how are you gonna differentiate them, is a blog gonna really gonna do that? Yeah, for people who read blogs, okay… But for the vast majority, you know, your mom or . . . I mean your mom might read blogs, I don’t know.


Jason: She does. But yes, for most moms, maybe not, right.


Steve: That’s right, so I thought . . .


Steve: Alright, so maybe if you’re in a space where you’re in a dogfight with other people and there’s no way to differentiate or hard to differentiate.


Jason: But look at the, I mean, look at the world as flat now, that competition’s gonna come out of China or come out of India, you know. So the competition is just gonna increase in the end. I think if you’re a truly remarkable product, it’s, you need it less. And it becomes, you may need it to manage the inbound trend, okay.


Jason: So if you’re Jet Blue, well actually Jet Blue’s having problems recently.


Steve: Well you always need it for crisis. You should have it to plan for crisis at like, you know, AOL…


Jason: I think Jet Blue did it really well. They were just like “Hey, we screwed up, we’re gonna give people a Bill of Rights and give them some money back.”


Steve: Although I got a call from the press yesterday. Apparently one of the people who was on one of the planes who now has a blog. And so she’s getting all this buzz and with the CEO.


Jason: I think it was somebody who hated AOL really like a ton.


Steve: Only one person?


Jason: Only one person in the history of technology industries, only one person who didn’t like AOL.


Steve: No, there was one person who had a blog… and she was very vocal… And I wrote on her blog, “I really appreciate you maintaining this blog, because I can point other people in the company here when we do something wrong and you really, I wish we could pay you to do this.” And she was like, “I hate you guys, we’re on!” And I was like, “Yeah, but your suggestions are great. I’d love it if you’d look at Netscape and tell us what you think we should do there.” And she’s like, “I think Netscape’s great, I don’t have a problem with it.” I was like, “Oh, okay, well if you ever have a problem, you know you can contact me.” She’s like, “You’re the only person in AOL who talks to anybody.” And I was like “Oh, okay, well anytime you need to talk to someone, let me know, I’ll get you on the phone with them or you can come by the office. And I would love to have you come speak at AOL and tell us where we should change things.”


Steve: Right, that’s a good idea.


Jason: I don’t understand why people were so adverse.


Steve: Did she calm down after that?


Jason: Yeah, pretty much.


Steve: You know, it’s the, I call it the, you know, the cold French fry system, which is, and this is just as good as kangaroos and lions.


Jason: You got the craziest analogies kid. Do these analogies work when you talk to clients?


Steve: I think they do.


Jason: Alright, cold French Fries, let me hear about the cold French fry one.


Steve: When you get cold French fries at McDonalds and you’re mad, okay, you go and the person will vent and vent and vent and vent and vent. And if that person feels like they were listened to and understood, and someone actually took the effort to really solve their problem… then they calm down.


Jason: Right. Like so if you say, “Oh my God we gave you cold French fries, that’s ridiculous! Here’s two orders of hot ones and a hot apple pie.”


Steve: That’s exactly right. “And a coupon for the next time, bring the kids.” That’s a customer for life. So that’s what has to happen.


Jason: That’s the thin line between love and hate.


Steve: Well . . .


Jason: It’s a thin line between love and hate.


Steve: If you do that consistently and do it well . . .


Jason: Tyler, can you put that music under there for . . . Now that I got a producer, one that really produces.


Steve: He’s got a busy job.


Jason: Exactly. Now that we’ve got production, these microphones cost like a grand each.


Steve: Wow!


Jason: So, anyway, I grilled you, and do you have any questions for me? Or you can ask me anything you want, ‘cause I’m a totally transparent open guy?


Steve: Well I wanna start with orange… Why orange?


Jason: Ask any question? Orange is my favorite color, that’s a great question, and it’s my favorite color because I love the Knicks, and the Knicks are Orange and Blue. And this is an Engadget T-shirt.


Steve: So what’s going on with Marbury?


Jason: Stefan Marbury?


Steve: He’s having a decent season


Jason: He’s having a pretty decent season, he’s really been helping. Nate Robinson is fun. He needs to be, he needs to become a better passer and he dribbles the ball a little too much. He has to get better at distributing. He’s like a shooting guard in a . . .


Steve: So he’s gotta be more like Steve Nash?


Jason: Exactly. A lot more! I mean he’s a shooting guard in a body that’s six inches shorter than a point guard in today’s league.


Steve: Right.


Jason: So he has to realize that. But he is incredible when he penetrates and drives the basket, he can get some incredible shots.


Steve: Did you see the slam-dunk contest?


Jason: I did, I did. He can do some interesting things.


Steve: But that was very interesting when that guy from the Celtics, that Celtics guy, I don’t know, I forgot his name.


Jason: He leaped over him.


Steve: He leaped over him, that was amazing!


Jason: Yeah. Well and last year he had leaped over Spud Web, so he won that way, so yeah. So anyway, that’s the Orange.


Steve: So that’s the orange.


Jason: You can ask me anything about anything.


Steve: Anything about anything about anything?


Jason: Anything about anything.


Steve: So where are we?


Jason: Right now we’re in my office, and that’s it… We’re in my office.


Steve: Well we’re in California.


Jason: We’re in Santa Monica in my office.


Steve: In California and I’m here visiting our LA office which is not far from here. It’s actually my first visit here since I’ve been with the firm.


Jason: Very good. Welcome to Santa Monica.


Steve: So now let’s see, what else? Do you miss AOL at all?


Jason: Do I miss AOL, that’s a GREAT question!


Steve: Or do you miss WIN?


Jason: I miss Weblogs, Inc. a lot, and I miss Netscape a lot, but I still act like I’m the CEO, so you know, I could, I still write about them like I’m the CEO, and I blog about them, like “Oh, you know, they’re doing this and we’re doing this,” then I have to crack myself like “We’re not doing it, they’re doing it.” But I still talk to everybody over there on a pretty regular basis. I miss it. AOL was a good learning experience for a year. I think if I had become . . .


Steve: It’s very hard to retain the entrepreneurs anywhere.


Jason: I would have stayed. I basically told them I’ll stay if I become President.


Steve: Of AOL?


Jason: Right. Which is ridiculous - I know.


Steve: So that would be like Rumsfeld saying, “I’ll stay . . .”


Jason: “If I’m Vice President.”


Steve: “If you, like you know, if you step aside.”


Jason: Well I mean they could have made a slot for me I guess. They, you know, John Miller didn’t wind up staying.


Steve: And he was really your friend there, right?


Jason: And John Miller was my guy, so I didn’t wanna start with a new guy, and they wouldn’t have made me President. But I do think I would have done a good job at that, but I’m a little delusional. But I would have stayed if I was further up, you know. Like I was SVP, I was gonna become an EVP, and then I guess it’s President after that. So if I had become President, I would have stayed.


Steve: I know a lot of your ex-cronies. I know Keith O’Brien.


Jason: Keith O’Brien, yeah? He’s at PRweek .

Steve: He is at PRweek.


Jason: He got his start at Venture Reporter and Silicon Valley reporter.


Steve: And Rafat.


Jason: Rafat Ali from Paid Content worked for me, yeah. A lot of these guys got their graduate degrees at ‘Calacanis University’.


Steve: Do you miss those days, the Silicon Alley Reporter days?


Jason: Well that was fun!


Steve: Like the Heyday? Well that must have been insane?


Jason: That was insane!


Steve: ‘Cause I was, you know, that was, reading that and watching all that as an outsider …


Jason: Yeah, well the thing about that that was fun about that was I never intended that to be a business, and it wound up being a $12 million a year business, eventually, and I had 70 employees. This is where I did Silicon Valley Reporter magazine. Some people don’t know that weren’t around… but I had started that magazine in ’96 as a photocopier and then grew to 350 pages. And we’d do events and I’d have 2,000 people, 3,000 people at an event paying $1,000 each, so . . .


Steve: Now flash-forward to today. Does anything today feel like that as it relates to say . . .


Jason: There’s definitely an energy level.


Steve: Don’t get me wrong, Mike Arrington is a good friend of mine, but you know, TechCrunch, you know, gets a lot of people coming to the parties, and there’s a lot of, and it’s certainly cheaper as a business.


Jason: I think the difference is, you know, back then, there was no revenue on the Internet to speak of and the audience was small. Like we used to say, if only there were like 20 million people on the Internet we could make a business out of this, ‘cause there was only like 2 or 3 million people on the internet. And if only advertisers would spend money on the Internet. Well now billions, tens of billions are being spent online. If only people would put their credit card numbers in the Internet, and if only people had Broadband. So there were all those question marks in ’96, ’97, ’98 that have all been answered. So now if you’re Digg or StumbleUpon or whoever and you make any kind of cool product that gets any kind of traction, it, you just Google AdSense on it and you make money, you don’t even need sales department.

Steve: You make some money.


Jason: You make enough to stay in business! So that I think it’s a lot easier to reach sustainability. And . . .


Steve: But is Digg really making any money? ‘Cause I mean…….


Jason: I think they probably make enough to . . .


Steve: What I heard is everyone’s using the Ad-Blockers who is using Digg.


Jason: Well I think that’s a group of kids in large part. It’s like 12 to 25-year-old kids, it’s probably half the audience or three quarters of the audience, I don’t know.


Steve: It’s a very different bunch than Deli.cio.us I’ve noticed, I really have.


Jason: Well Deli.cio.us is like older, more mature . . .


Steve: Much more serious community.


Jason: Yeah, absolutely. It’s . . .


Steve: Serious in a different regard. I mean and I’ve noticed how . . .


Jason: They’re the older techs and . . .


Steve: Well I had a lucky day where I was on both home pages. And I noticed how it, what it took to go to Digg, and then what the comments on Digg were were . …


Jason: Stupid.


Steve: Well they were just, I mean I . . .


Jason: Well it’s like 12 year olds, 15 year olds.


Steve: Yeah, it was totally like, you know, and they’re making fun of my bald head, things like that. And I was laughing sitting there.


Jason: Well you know what the thing about it is that traffic is not really worth that much. Google don’t wanna reach a 12 year old audience. It’s not that important to a lot of people, so as in terms of a demographic, the advertising’s worth less. But it still gets a ton of traffic, so it’s still worth something.


Steve: Unbelievable traffic.


Jason: And I do think they make enough off of the ads to probably break even if they wanted to pull back. I’m sure they could break even, so they could be sustainable indefinitely. Of course . . .


Steve: Okay, so here’s what I’m concerned about, is that everyone’s advertising, advertising, advertising… The advertisers, God bless them, they’re gonna make the money, the advertisers. There’s not gonna be enough left to go around. Now what’s gonna happen is that . . .


Jason: Why?


Steve: Well because there’s gonna be an ad recession.


Jason: At some point.


Steve: At some point.


Jason: You know, I mean it’s a stock market . . .


Steve: But during recessions, people, they flee to the quality, and the quality is online and radio.


Steve: The quality is online, but it’s not… I don’t know if it’s Digg.


Jason: Okay, fair enough.


Steve: Okay? And for a blogger, I’m not that concerned about Om and people like that, because they don’t need a lot of money.


Jason: Low overhead.


Steve: That’s right, exactly right, bingo, okay.


Jason: You’re spending $50,000 a month.


Steve: But so many start-ups are pegging themselves on advertising as their soul source of revenue. And even Google makes the large, that’s a whole other topic, but I actually think that that’s going to start to erode too, because I think people are gonna start to say, “Hey, this Search stuff is not as effective as it used to be ‘cause it’s so cluttered.” You got, you know . . .


Jason: So you think Search is a problem?


Steve: Not right now. I think it’s a wonderful business when it works.


Jason: Right.

Steve: Okay. But I think as it gets more cluttered with advertisers, I mean I’ve just noticed on Keywords lately, it’s like 6, 10, 12 advertisers.


Jason: Yeah.


Steve: And I wonder if people are gonna sort of say, “You know what, that doesn’t work unless you really invest a lot of money.” And it’s become a lot more expensive over the last few years from what it used to be.


Jason: Hey, so speaking of Digg, are you guys advising your clients on how to get on the Digg homepage? Do you have clients coming to you saying “I wanna be on the Digg Homepage or Netscape homepage”?


Steve: I’m not having clients . . . No, I’m not having clients come to us and say, and if I did, I would tell them you do it basically by creating good content and helping your community with uploads. Yeah. No, the bigger question is and it’s interesting and I’m curious is, I mean, Wikipedia is an interesting topic. And you know . . .


Jason: Did you see the news today that there was a Wikipedian who was featured in the New Yorker, and he had lied, he’s actually a twenty-five year old kid but he said he had multiple PhD’s.


Steve: Really?


Jason: Yeah. And he went to work for Wikia, Jimmy Wales’ for-profit company. Jimmy Wales says “Oh, it’s not a big deal, I talked to him about it. And I know he had a pseudonym. So basically, I love Jimmy Wales, he just like he’s Jesus Christ. He’s like “Oh, no, no. It was a massive transgression, but all is forgiven. I just, I bestow my blessings on him, All is forgiven! He doesn’t need to worry about it.”


Jason: But it’s like the New Yorker had to print a correction that they were lied to. And all the, and the management team at Wikipedia had suggested they talk to this guy ‘cause he had fooled the management team at Wikipedia into think that he was whatever.


Steve: Well a lot of are freaked out by what’s in there, and they wanna change it, and so we advise them, “Don’t.”


Jason: Go to the Discuss page.


Steve: Exactly right. Plead your case, it’s a court, you know. And then somebody will come along. Your Producer just left.


Jason: No, it’s still recording, he just probably went to get a donut. Tyler likes taking a little break.


Steve: For you, or . . .


Jason: No, no, no. One donut every . . . I probably have a donut every month and a slice of pizza every month at this point. I try to… I can’t give it up. I edit my own Wikipedia page. But I do it under my full name, JasonCalacanis as a handle. Then . . .


Steve: See they have the wrong year on mine that I joined that on Edleman, and I actually…

Jason: I just decided, ‘cause somebody changed my name to McEvil instead of McCabe, my middle name…


Steve: Right.


Jason: So I was like, “I think I know my middle name, I’ll change it.” And Jimmy Wells says if you know it’s factually incorrect, you can change it. But he changed his own. But he says if it’s factually incorrect you can change it, but he still advises against that ‘cause then people will spin it.


Steve: I think you have to point to something. If it’s factually incorrect . . .


Steve: …. He’s back. Look at this.


Jason: I told you he was getting a donut.


Steve: Yes, he was, and 7-Up too. Is he gonna get any camera time or not?


Jason: No, Tyler ain’t getting any camera time.


Steve: What? It’s like Howard Stern, his people. Remember originally like . . .


Jason: Are you saying he’s Ba-Ba Booey.


Steve: Yeah, well like originally . . .


Jason: I just hired him, don’t’ make him quit. I just hired him, it’s like his third episode. “Get in here Ba-Ba Booey.” Now this is a New Yorker with the Howard Stern references.


Steve: That’s right.


Jason: So it was wonderful having you here on the program.


Steve: I am so honored!


Jason: I’m sorry for busting your chops at the beginning. I knew you guys do a great job.


Steve: My face is all red.


Jason: Don’t worry, we’ll change that with color correction later.


Steve: I hope so.


Jason: Tell the color correction department.


Steve: It’s warm in here. The pipes are a nice touch.


Jason: Tell the people in Post=Production, the color correction and then they can transpose that and put a Cairo on and do all that stuff and blah, bla, blah blah, blah.


Steve: Can you picture this guy from New York living in LA. How do you drive here?


Jason: Being a New Yorker, very fast.


Steve: Where, in the sky?


Jason: No actually I don’t, you know, I don’t commute during regular hours, so I never hit traffic. And I put my whole life on the West Side. I live in Brentwood… my office is in Santa Monica… I go bloop, bloop, right to my office, there’s no problem.


Steve: Okay, but I just did that little drive and it took me a half hour to get here.


Jason: Yeah, it takes me about 15, if you know which way you’re going. Did you take the highway?


Steve: I took the highway.


Jason: Big mistake. You don’t need to get on the highway ‘cause you’re already West of the 405, you just go straight across and then down.


Steve: I don’t know anything about this place.


Jason: Exactly. But when you…


Steve: It’s all country.


Jason: Yeah. Well you know what, being a New Yorker in LA is great because you can move fast and you hustle.


Steve: Do you see celebrities everywhere or no?


Jason: Uh, Yeah, well I live in Brentwood which is like celebrity central, like the Starbucks. You don’t live there anymore, but . . . I was at dinner the other night and Garry Shandling was at the table next to me. And the kid “E” from Entourage, he’s a good actor. What’s the kid’s name? “E” from Entourage? We should put that down here in a Cairon, and his name at the bottom of this, people who are watching on their iPods can know his name. I forgot it. You know the kid, “E”, on Entourage?


Tyler: Is it on U-Tube?


Jason: Kevin Connolly or Kevin Connolly? Something like that.


Tyler: He’s a rich boy.


Jason: He’s a good Irish kid from Queens.


Steve: I’ll go look it up on Wikipedia.


Jason: And thank you to Go Daddy, Go Daddy, Go Daddy, we love you!


Steve: We love Go Daddy.


Jason: We love Go Daddy. Jason1, you can go register a domain name.


Steve: How often do you get to New York to visit the school?


Jason: Well I’m on the Board, so I get to go, I’m there probably every two or three months.


Steve: Yeah, that’s great. That’s terrific, just outstanding what you’re doing.


Jason: It’s awesome right? it’s pretty cool.


Steve: It’s true.


Jason: I call it media philanthropy. It was another meme I was trying to spread.


Steve: Media philanthropy.


Jason: Media philanthropy, so like . . .


Steve: It needs a buzz word.


Jason: Creating media properties that have philanthropic purpose. So like what if CNN had been donated to the UN instead of Ted Turner giving all his money to the UN, he would donate CNN in a Trust, run CNN profitably and throw up all the profits to like cure AIDS or, you know, vaccines.


Steve: Was that one of the emails you sent when you were at AOL?


Jason: I don’t know how good that would go over at Time Warner. There’s a great… if you wanna read a great book, want me to tell you a great book?


SR; Sure.


Jason: Pick this book up. Ken Oletta from the New Yorker, smart guy, great writer. He’s actually a fun guy, I talked to him today.


Steve: Ted Turner’s Bio.


Jason: Ted Turner’s Bio.


Steve: Yeah.


Jason: Awesome. Oh, you read it Tyler?


Jason: Get this. It’s awesome, I mean it is awesome, great story!


Steve: I think you’re a lot like him.


Jason: Ted Turner?


Steve: Yeah!


Jason: Out of my mind, manic depressive?


Steve: No, not that part of it, but more like the starting a new business, doing innovative stuff, constantly pushing.


Jason: We’ll see, if I could have half the career of Ted Turner’s, that’d be twice what I deserve. Okay, so on that note, and actually that’s a guy, if anybody out there knows Ted Turner, that’s a guy I’d like to meet. So if you know Ted Turner, I’d love to have lunch with him, I’ll fly anywhere. Actually I’d like to interview him too. I think Ted Turner’s a genius.


Steve: Well we represent his restaurants, but I don’t know if I can do anything.


Jason: Oh really? What are the restaurants, oh with the buffalo?


Steve: Yeah, he’s got a chain of restaurants.


Jason: I think they serve buffalo or bison.


Steve: Yeah, but I don’t know if I can pull any strings.


Jason: Alright, hey, Tyler, in the Cairons down here, put the name of Ted Turner’s restaurant. This is gonna be the new device, me pointing to the name of the restaurant – whatever the fact that we know… we can put it on the bottom.


Steve: I don’t know a lot.


Jason: Well I do appreciate you coming out. I hate PR people, but I like you. I always tell you that.


Steve: I will carry that message back.


Jason: You tell everybody at Edelman that Jason Calacanis hates PR people.


Steve: Outstanding.


Jason: Detests them, but for some reason I like hanging out with you, you’re like the un-PR person.


Steve: That’s nice, thanks.


Jason: Even though you’re with the, is it the largest PR firm in the world…


Steve: Largest independent.


Jason: Largest independent PR firm in the world.


Steve: Right, so it’s the largest that’s not a part of the big conglomerates.


Jason: Right. I’m sure Edelman’s like, “This is part of my own thing.”


Steve: That’s right.


Jason: That’s kind of hot. I’ve met Richard. He spoke at some conference recently.


Steve: Probably Wi-Media.


Jason: Wi-Media. He seems like he knows what he’s doing.


Steve: He definitely does.


Jason: Alright. So Richard Edelman, we’ll see you on the next show. Well done.


Steve: Thank you.


Jason: Good, you held your own. Very nice.


Steve: Is it hot in here or is it just me???

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