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CalacanisCast Beta #9 transcript


Jason Calacanis: Hello, is anybody there yet?


Dana Gardener: Hello Dana Gardener here .


Jason: Who’s there?


Dana: Dana


Jason: Dana, what’s up it’s Jason.


Jason: Welcome to NOT-the-Gilmore-Gang.


Dana: Thank you sir.


Jason: Thanks for coming.


Dana: Yeah it’s good to be here.


Jason: I know we haven’t like… I guess when was the last time we recorded a Gilmore Gang?


Dana: Mid-November maybe?


Jason: Yeah I think it was November ’98 right?


Dana: Hahaha


Jason: Feels like it was ages ago.


Dab: Yeah it was a while.


Jason: We’ll see who shows up today.


Dana: Well, looks like, from the email, you’ll get everybody.


Jason: That’s pretty crazy isn’t it?


Dana: People like to talk.


Jason: Except for Steve Gilmore. He can’t be on the show.




Jason: Who’s there?


Mike Arrington: It’s Mike Arrington


Jason: Mike Arrington…on, on NOT the Gilmore Gang.


Jason: Operator, operator... Please start recording the call now. Operator, operator, please start recording the call now.


Mike Arrington: That sounds like a dubious command at best. If you’re relying on—


Jason: That’s the way it works. I think actually recording the whole thing but I think he said to say that.


Jason: So we’ve got Dana and Mike Arrington.


DG: Hello Mike.


MIKE A: Hey Dana.


DG: Yo!


MIKE A: I missed you man!


DG: Likewise. Hope you’re having a good time? Are you still up in the Seattle area?


MIKE A: No I came back.


DG: Ahh.


MIKE A: Everyone else that works for me quit so….


DG: Good skiing while you were there though?


MIKE A: Yeah. Yeah. Dumped up there. Great skiing, but I ended up working a lot more than I intended to. So um… ya’ know…it’s a balance.


DG: Yes indeed.


MIKE A: Life is a series of tradeoffs.


DG: I’m getting too much work done here because there’s no snow here.


MIKE A: Where do you live?


DG: I live in New Hampshire.


MIKE A: Oh Yeah ok.


DG: We have a nice ski mountain about ten minutes away but, one run is all that’s open and it’s all ice and it’s just not worth it.


MIKE A: Thank god for global warming!


DG: Ha, yeah.


MIKE A: I wrote about this company called Weather-Bill a couple of days ago that is offering these insurance policies based on the weather.


DG: Right.


MIKE A: And you just go and say “hey, I’m a golf course and every five days it rains this month or every day it rains this month I want five thousand dollars or whatever you want and it prices it out. It’s pretty cool. I was going to write the whole thing on global warming, but ahh, I didn’t. I didn’t want to get in trouble so I left it out entirely.


DG: So, what is this again? You just bet on what you guess the weather’s going to be?


MH Yeah. You just go in and you just say I want to be paid X dollars and you put an X based on being above or below a certain temperature or being above or below a certain level of precipitation. And you put in the number of inches per day.


DG: Wow.


MIKE A: Anyway, it just sort of on the fly creates an insurance policy for you. It’s not even really an insurance policy it’s just a bet on the weather and it pays it out.


DG: If you’re that good you might as well stick with stocks and bonds, ya’ know?


MIKE A: Yeah, but if you think about it movie theaters make a lot more money when it rains I guess and golf courses lose money and so it’s a pretty good way of hedging small business risks like that. Anyway, they’re making a pretty good go of it. I thought about making it about global warming but left it out.




Jason: Who’s there?


Dan Farber: This is Dan.


Jason: Dan! How are you doing?


Dan: Good, good, good.


Jason: Welcome to Not the Gilmore Gang.


Dan: Yes I was just with the Gilmore man himself.


Jason: Really!


Dan: He was trying to tell me he didn’t know anything about this and what’s going on? And…


Jason: Well, I figured I had two choices.


One: lose my friendship with Steve Gillmore.

Two: maintain my friendship with the rest of you guys.


Jason: The nine of you guys basically equal my friendship with Steve. I’m sure Steve will never forgive me for you know, hijacking the Gillmore Gang cast for the CalcaniCast but…


Dan: I think he’s probably ok with it given his current situation in that he’s the executive producer of this show.


Jason: Oh right, he’s the executive producer of CalcanisCast. I forgot that!

Yes, he’s the executive producing this very call except he’s not on it and in way involved with it.


Dan: (pause) Well… that’s a strange…


DG: He wasn’t really involved with it when he was running it was he? His own show? I mean, he just called people with no agenda; jus get on the phone. So - I just kind of consider him a minor partner.



Jason. Hmm. Interesting.


Dan: I hate that guy.


Jason: Dan Farber checking in.


MIKE A: Is he listening? What’s he doing is he on the phone right now?


Dan: Yeah I’m on the phone.


MIKE A: No, no not you…


Dan: Gillmore?


MIKE Ax: Yeah.


Dan: I was just over at the SalesForce event where they didn’t really have that much to announce.


MIKE A: Argh. I thought about getting up for that but didn’t that start at nine or something?


Dan: Actually started at ten. They just announced that they had pre-announced last year so…not much new. They did announce a deal with Dell that they’ve got fifteen thousand subscriptions but I have a feeling that that’s partly related to the fact that SalesForce .com is a huge Dell customer so…Quid Pro Quo…


But anyway he was over at this lunch that I just left with… I though he was going to come with me but he is apparently is taking video footage from that event now that he has discovered that podcasting is dead.


Jason: Podcasting is dead. Long live podcasting.


Dan: Yeah.


Jason: Alright so I think we have enough people to start the show. So just so everybody understands what exactly the show is. This is Calacanis Cast Beta # 9. It’s in Beta. This isn’t the real podcast. We’re going to start the real podcast at some point at the end of the second quarter of 2007. This is just a beta and we’re going to be in beta for awhile, but… This show as everybody knows from my blogging is sponsored by Godaddy.com and hosted by Podtech.net. Two great companies that I use their services personally. I want to thank them.


All the proceeds that these guys pay to be sponsors of the show go to the Bayridge Prepatory School Opportunity Fund. So you guys are going to ask what is that? Right?


What that is basically is…Podtech is sponsoring the show for Fifty thousand dollars and GoDaddy.com up to Seventy-five thousand if the show goes well. That money is going to put some kids into school and pay for their private school education. Kids who are, in some cases, foster kids and really would never have the opportunity to do something great like go to a private school with fifteen person classes.


So, I want to thank Godady.com for that and the way you can thank them for that is to go to GoDaddy.com right now and you can buy yourself a domain name. You going to buy yourself domain names anyway so you do that and you type in “Jason1” at the code. J-A-S-O-N that’s my name and the number 1 so it’s six characters. JASON and the number 1. You’ll get yourself ten percent off. That’s all good, right? Everybody here uses GoDaddy correct?


MIKE A: Jason can we use that code even if we’re an existing customer? Because I already use GoDaddy.com to buy all my domain names.


Jason: Yeah. Mike Arrington uses GoDaddy, Jason Calcanis uses Godaddy And now you can use the code “Jason1” to get an additional 10% off.


MIKE A: And then some of that goes to charity. Is that directly paid to charity or are you just…are they paying you a set fee that goes to charity?


Jason: They’re paying the set fee seventy-five grand, So, for me to do fifty shows so the shows go well we get some traffic so we have to let them know people are listening. So everybody, go buy a couple domain names… you’ve got to buy them anyway and GoDaddy; let’s face it; they’ve got the best prices and the best service anyway. Right Mike?


MIKE A: Oh yeah. I used to actually be in the domain industry. They’re fast and they’re cheap and their service works. So…I guess if you use the code you’re not getting more money in your pocket it’s just showing them that you’re listening to the show and that you know that you’re giving it to charity anyways.


Jason: Exactly! Exactly. In fact…they may not make back the fee they’re donating to charity but it turns out the people out there are good people and they want to support this concept of immediate philanthropy that I’m pushing. Which is, you know, people doing media properties and putting the money they make from it to charity. Like I was suggesting that wikipedia do. Actually the Mozilla Foundation and Firefox are doing. Right? I guess Mitchell, said on their blog, I guess, they made fifty million dollars in 2005?


Dan: Fifty-three (million)


Jason: Fifty-three… which I something that I put on my blog. I got a seventy-two number from somebody inside over there which I think was maybe based on their ‘run’ rate which is why there was a difference but… They’ve got to making over one hundred million now if they made that in 2005? How impressive was it that Wikipedia has raised a million dollars in donations in like…two weeks?


Dana: Yeah. That could be a very huge business.


MIKE A: All they have to do is add a couple of ads on the side and make it into a C-Corp for a non-profit and they’ve got a winner!


Jason: Well, I mean… They could put that money towards other projects like making it sustainable like what Firefox is doing.


Dana: Hey Mike I see that you posted on Wikipedia launching WikiSeek


MIKE A: Yeah. It ‘s a cool little service and it went live yesterday. It’s funny because there a little confusion because in December, Jimmy Wales, the co-founder of Wikipedia talked about this Wikiasari - this new search engine that they’re going to launch and it got a lot of press.


I tracked down what I thought was a screenshot of Wikiasari from a good source and posted it. It turned out is wasn’t Wikiasari at all it as Jimmy Wales commented and said, but it was this prototype/screenshot of this unlaunched, Sequoia-backed start-up called WikiSeek that I didn’t know I posted it thnking it was something else… So anyway I posted it and they were surprised to see a protoype of their service since no one knew about them put up on the web and got to know the company that they launched last night. It’s pretty cool!


Jason: Yeah. This one is definitely loaded with money on the right side of the page.


GROUP: Yeah.


MIKE A: They’re donating all of that or most of that to Wikipedia which is cool.



Jason: . Oh so that money is going to Wikipedia? They said this?


Dan: The majority of the revenue generated by the Wikiseek advertising is donated to the WikiMedia Foundation.


Jason: Oh wow! So this company, a Sequoia-backed Company, where I work… Well, I don’t know if I WORK there? I’m an Entrepreneur-in-Action over there.


… The company SearchMe, I think, is the name of it. They’re doing this with Wikipedia. Or are they doing this independent of Wikipedia?


DG: So, where are the entrepreneurs that are not in action?


Jason: I think I’m the only Entrepreneur-in-Action at Sequoia to be totally honest.


DG: So, what does that mean? Is it as opposed to the inanimate entrepreneurs?


----------- 19:59


Jason: Well, I think what it is… I don’t think XYZ likes the term ‘in residence’ because that’s sort of like I’m never going to leave - like I’m a kid who went home after college and just sort of, you know, sort of slacking ‘living the life’. I’m out there and I’m going to start a new company I’m not just going to hang around and drink coffee and sit in on presentations for the rest of my life!


DG: Can you give us any hint as to what kind of company?


Jason: Ahh, well yes. It’ll probably be a podcasting or video company like Podshow or Podtech.


DG: So they’re not doing a good enough job? There’s enough space for three?


Jason: No, actually I wouldn’t go into that business. I think that ‘s a fifty million or hundred million dollar opportunity…


MIKE A: But didn’t you just say it would be just like-- I think you just said quote “It’ll be just like Podtech or Podshow”


Jason: Yeah. Just like. Ah, no I don’t think I would get into the podcasting business. I don’t think that’s a big enough business.


MIKE A: You just said it was podcasting! I mean…Can we callback what you just said?


Jason: Ah. No. I’m editing it out of the show. I’m pulling it out. I’m pulling Gillmore privileges.


GROUP: (laughing)


DG: Just give us a straight answer once in a while, c’mon!


Jason: The straight answer is I had two things that I said I wanted to do with this company, which was, you know whatever my next company is when I figure it out is …

1) it’s got to affect every single person on the Internet every day and

2) it’s got to help people and be , like, a force of good.


So, if anybody can think of anything that matches those two criteria. Something that people can both use everyday and that will help and be a positive force on the Internet let me know and I’ll go do that business.


But until I figure something that’s that scope, I’m not going to do anything.


DG: Sounds capital-intensive.


Jason: Money is never an issue. It’s really just the idea and the execution.


XYZ: Hey Jason??


Jason: Yes sir?


XYZ: I noticed that Engadget had ten million page views on ‘iPhone day’ and it just sounds like they’re just they’re doing really well. Is there any connection with the fact that you finally left WebLogs?


Jason: And the traffic spikes!! Haha!

Yeah I think so. I think I was frankly holding everybody back and Netscape is doing fantastic now too so it’s very clear I was holding everybody back. No, I---


MIKE A: Congratulations on that. That’s great news.


Jason: I think that I got far too much credit for what a lot of Weblog Inc’s success historically anyway so… I was trying to get other folks more credit as time goes on. It’s actually a really big problem when you are an entrepreneur I think...


And you have this problem I think at TechCrunch because it becomes like it’s the Mike Arrington Show and…it became the Jason Calacanis Show and it’s not easy to manage people when you’re getting all the praise for their work and I’m constantly telling people, when the press would call, and I’m telling them no, talk to people like Brian Alvey about BlogSmith, no talk to Judith Meskill about managing bloggers, no talk to Peter Rojas or Ryan about Engadget. You know the press is fickle.


They want to keep pushing the stars and they would only invite me to an event — When I would try to get somebody else on my team they would go “No, no, no we only want the CEO’ so it’s a real pain the neck! It’s a liability when you’re running a business to be totally honest.


Jason: Anyway, what do we all think of the iPhone?


MIKE A: Love it! Think it’s the coolest thing that I’ve ever seen. I have no hesitation as to how cool that thing is.


Jason: Mike Arrington says it’s very cool. On a scale of 1-10 he says 12. What do you think about it?


DG: It’s a game changer no question about it. It raises the element of software as the chief differentiator of these products. And that hasn’t been the case. These products have been schilled like they’re cheap trinkets. Everyone’s trying to drive down as low as they can while not bringing anything new to the market. So what’s the difference between Sprint and Verizon Wireless and AT&T?


Well, next to nothing. I go out and compare and if I can find something for two dollars cheaper than the other I think I’m doing well but what I get is really lousy service and no conversions and I can’t access the stuff from my computer and the address book changes every time I drop the thing and the service isn’t very good and the billing is crazy and it’s…it’s not a very good system! So---


Dan: But, that’s the carrier side… but, Apple’s not on the carrier side—


DG: Well…? See I think that’s what they’ve done. They’ve broken down this relationship where the carriers become sort of the weak link in the chain. And---


Dan: Well, I wouldn’t call a two year contract with Cingular to get one of those phones, for $500-$600 bucks, Apple strangling the carrier.


Jason: Yeah, they cracked the cartel and they took it over with a higher-priced longer-term relationship.


Jason: Who just entered the call?


DG: It’s a placeholder. Cingular relationship is a placeholder and if AT&T comes up with a better----


Dan: Well, I think the whole Iphone is basiscally a prototype for what’s to come.


DG: Yeah?


Dan: And…So is everything!


That, that sounds like Doc?


Doc: Yeah it is.


Jason: DOC! Welcome to Not-the-Gillmor-Gang.




Jason: I’m your host not Steve Gillmor. This is Gillmor Gang in exile.


Doc: Is the Gillmor Gang in exile or whatever this is? Any port in the storm.


Jason: Steve Gillmor has nothing to do with this show except that he is the Executive Producer and I’m gonna leave it----Doc where are you and what do you think of the Iphone?


Doc: I’m home and I ..I feel suckered by the Iphone. I wasn’t there – in fact it’s the first of Steve Jobs talks and his annual homilies that I missed…but , ‘cuz I was at the CES so there’s actual Linux news which I was paid to cover so I was there and…


You know…when he said it was three things and he kind of milked the whole deal and uh….and one of those revolutionary things that you know comes along once every 20 years was…uhh you know a radically or a revolutionary new internet communications device …and then he says it runs on OS 10. I thought that was a total bait and switch if they’re gonna close it up because…um…you know, I went and published a piece talking about how this is a cool thing and all I got major egg on my face - in addition to feeling that it’s really a stupid thing to do to close it up! It’s a totally predictable thing to do for Apple because they do love to close things up. Remember they made the original MAC with…with special screws and screwdrivers that you needed. You needed these special things in order to open up the damn box!


Jason: I didn’t know that!


Doc: Oh yeah!


Jason: So they actually ---


DG: They were these things called torque screw drivers.


Doc: Yeah.


DG: They had these long noses that you had to order to work to get in there.


Doc: It wasn’t normal. Torque is among the screwdriver standards but you needed one with a very long shaft - …pun intended… to use this thing. Anyway. I feel a little bit snookered by it…


Jason: But you still want it?


Doc: NO! No I don’t. Actually.


DG: I think all that is very temporary. I think that it’s a prototype that uh…they’ve been working on for two and a half years and they’ve got some things right and they’ve stuffed the MAC OS or some version of the OS Mac in there but…but it’s basically an Ipod with a crappy camera with some nice software for doing photos that deals with videos very nicely… with really incredible touch screen and oh, by the way… it also makes phone calls pretty well. It’s a hybrid device and I think that Apple’s got - this has to be a new platform! All kinds of new things that are sprouted off this - and I think Apple has the lead simply because they do have a really good operating system and a feel for how to develop products that people can actually use.


Doc: So here’s a question. If it’s a platform…can it be a platform if it only runs their software?


DG: Again, I think that it’s temporary…that it’s under Steve Job’s control right now. All he wants to do is to get it out and its not fucked up! And then once it gets out there…


Doc: Yeah but once it gets out there---- to have a browser that it gets out there it in this form factor , it opens up an opportunity to anyone to get on the web to be able to produce content and services that----


Jason: What are they going to do? Are they going to turn off java scripting? I mean are they…Are they gonna do anything?


Doc: The browser is where everything happens.


Jason: Yeah! Hmm. Who just joined the call?


MA: Maybe somebody left?


Jason: Maybe somebody left. And we’ll never know who left?


DG: Steve, in absentia?


Jason: No, Steve is not affiliated with us he’s just the Executive Producer.


So. Umm…you’re saying that it’s closed that in order to make it work and that over time it will become more open?


Dan: Right. I think that it’s more closed now simply because, um, they probably haven’t worked out the SPK yet. They want to make sure that when it does come out that the experience is really as Steve Jobs would say “Super Good’’ and that , um, once they get past that stage and they feel more comfortable and they have a good SDK …AND…they have quality control which means they are gonna have to put in something to vet applications and certify them.


DG: So why would Jobs say that it was because of Cingular…


Doc: That is so crazy!


Doc: It, it is weird to me. That doesn’t seem like it’s a considered remark. It seems like it’s either some weird kind of policy or some kind of profound misunderstanding. Umm…I mean if he wanted to do what you are saying he should have just said “yeah we’re gonna have it SDK or all of those things but we’re just not ready for it and stay tuned.”



Jason: Steve Jobs saying he’s not ready for something? I don’t think so.


Doc: He seemed— I thought shut the door right in the beginning just saying.. ---this has to be perfect software and we are the only ones capable of developing that and you know you all can go fuck yourselves.


DG: I don’t think that’s gonna be sustained because you know at some point they need to build more of an ecosystem than just Apple saying what could be put into it.


Jason: Ok. So, obviously the Ipod has done so poorly with it’s closed ecosystem?


MIKE A: Hmm.. I’m gonna disagree with Doc right now---


Doc: I think that the ipod experience has convinced him that this ecosystem might be exactly the way to go.


DG: Right.


Jason: Who was it that disagreed?


Hugh McLoud: It’s Hugh McCloud. Hi Jason.


Jason: Oh my god it’s Hugh! Welcome to Not the Gillmore Gang.


Hugh: I missed you by the way.


Jason: I missed you too. And you know I love you…but: this is NOT the Gillmor gang this is CalacanisCast. And if you start breathing, and like smoking cigarettes, or doing dishes I will kill you!


Hugh: OK Ha ha.


Jason: Ok just wanted to give you that disclaimer now ok?


Hugh: Yeah . Yeah. Yeah. Ok you just let me know.


MIKE A: Ha ha… dont breathe.


Hugh: I’m gonna disagree with Doc right now ok?




Jason: Alright.


Hugh: You know actually, I just had dinner with a client and he showed me a copy of the Clue Train Manifesto that we gave him for Christmas and it was saying what a life’s changing experience it was and I’m saying ‘really, I would like to have a phone call with Doc and see if he’s really impressed.


Doc: So If I could disagree with you. I’m not going to disagree with you because I think you’re wrong. Umm…but I think your...I think you like open systems and I mean so do I. But you know what? Country clubs are closed systems. Getting your kid into Yale or Harvard is a closed system, and I think people take comfort in closed systems. You now, that’s..that’s a lot of the appeal of Apple. They go into the Apple tent and they feel safe because they know what they are getting, they know how reliable it is. They don’t care that you can get a better education at the University of Texas or wherever it is…I’m sending my kid to Harvard! It’s that kind of----


Hugh: Well, I, I pretty much taking your time. I figured we’re much better with an open phone as opposed to a closed phone. I just wonder whether or not it’s a good idea… whether they’re a Harvard or whether they’re a junior college to have a closed phone. I mean…it sounded to me like the only thing I was saying about it was that ah---the tea leaves that I was reading in the press, which is what Steve Jobs said to Newsweek and to other people, and to the New York Times was that we’re closing it and it’s because of Cingular! And---


Jason: Ok. Let’s go around the table here. Let me ask you guys two questions:


Better for Apple—stock price? Open or Closed?


Better for Users---Open or closed?


Let’s start with you, Doc.


Doc: Oh I think it’s better for their - I don’t know - I think it’s a wash for their stock price so I’d largely say better if it’s open because I think on the whole open sounds better to wall street than closed does at least if you’re saying open or saying closed.


Better for users, for sure! I mean - we’re in an era where the users are the producers and not just the consumers. As it’s been ranted-on forever to the point where even I’m tired of it. They can’t be an ecosystem if they’re just one company. It just doesn’t make sense but.—



Jason: OK


Doc: Let me just tell you one thing that umm…I have a friend who works at Apple and who is …I’m just gonna go ahead and say it—Tony Fiddel who designed the Ipod once told me that if you want to understand Steve Jobs don’t look at Apple look at Pixar. They never have a failure! And that Jobs actually does calculate out very thoroughly exactly what they’re gonna do with every single SKU they ever come out with. And…and they’re failure rate is very low and it’s very not smart to second-guess the guy or to go against the company. All indications were that before they came out with the retail store that they would fail with that and that they’ve been…it’s been a resounding success. So, I mean…I don’t know - I think it’s a bad idea to have it closed but it may turn out to be a very good idea for them.


Jason: Ok. Ok Mike Arrington?


MIKE A: Well, I wanted to let that conversation sort of make it way, sort of evolve, but…I actually don’t think it’s closed. I think that it’s not open in the way that Firefox is where you can sort of create your own extension and do whatever you want. Clearly, I think that you’re going to have to go through Apple in order to get your applications on the iPhone. But, in one sense that’s a good thing. You know Firefox is often for what is but, you know I download a lot of extensions and some of them are incompatible and don’t work and there’s all kinds of problems that I’m always sort of tweaking it and trying to work it out and that’s fine for me but if Apple doesn’t address that market. Apple addresses the market that you know wants something at the push of a button that always works perfectly one button, simple, never crashes and you know they do a good job of that. So I suspect that if over time they will open it up to partners who want to build specialized applications just for it. But, they’re gonna have to be high quality partners and they’re gonna have to sign agreements with Apple to make sure that the services don’t conflict with other services. So, um…I actually don’t think it’s closed. No. I think that. I think the phone itself has already been great for Apple’s stock and it’s, I think that it will continue to be. And I think it also gonna be great for Apple’s market share. I think we’re gonna see more and more businesses, small businesses in particular, start to adopt the Mac platform and go with the Iphone and use it as sort of a productivity suite. I asked David Hornik last week…I met with him, um…and a few other people and had lunch and I asked and----


Jason: of August Capital?


MIKE A: He’s a partner at August Capital and I sort of randomly asked him what percentage of startups - these are tech startups not statistically relevant - but I asked what percentage of startups pitching you come in with a Mac? You know a Mac laptop today instead of a PC laptop and he said about 50%. And that actually surprised me. You know, journalists traditionally use Macs, but, you know…even tech startup guys are very PC based and the fact that 50% now, according to him, are using Macs I think is a great sign.


DG: Which is versus 5% of market share or whatever it is.


Hugh: Yeah. You have to include in that market every piece of droneware that ever went into an enterprise. It aint the same….you know! That’s like counting every truck and delivery van in the overall population.


Jason: Can I tell you something? Cuz if I was running a startup company right now I’d have nine full time people working in my pool-house, which I don’t! But if I did have nine people currently working in my pool-house, I would buy nine 24 inch iMacs. And I’d put them all on those cuz it’s a perfect business machine and I love the fact that the systems are closed because now I don’t have to deal with IT! I have no IT department for nine full-time employees and I could probably go to ninety with iMacs.


Mike: Is that because the system is closed?


Jason: That’s exactly right!


Jason: Because the system is closed and everything is built in and nobody can screw with the operating system. Nobody can screw with the applications. The hardware’s all from one vendor and it’s soup to nuts - flawless! And if something goes wrong with the machine just put somebody on a new one, reformat the drive and go!


Doc: I agree that some of that has to be closed but some of that perhaps is due to the fact that, you know, the bottom level, the operating system is BSD, which is open.


Jason: Interesting. Ok so, Dana, Dan, Hugh---


Hugh: I think Dan is absolutely right. I think that , uh , it’s not necessarily a closed device, it’s a control device to control precisely what is needed right now so investors will benefit for the foreseeable future as the functionality out-sweeps the marketplace and every other device is substandard. Ahh, and if it needs to be closed for a period of years to do that or controlled to do that then fine. But ultimately if the marketplace demands it and marketshare is sliding than they’ll open it up accordingly. But in the meantime, they are going to produce the best thing on the market.

Ryan: Hey guys. Hey this is Ryan. I’m sorry I’m a little bit late. So---- I don’t …closed or open? I don’t take really that much issue with what Apple is doing with the iPhone so much as how I take issue with how they are positioning the device. Umm… they’re not positioning it as a closed device they’re positioning it as an open device. They’re using the terminology ‘Smart phone” which means you can install programs on it. And they’re saying is runs OSX, which implies that you can install your OS10 program on it. So, the implication is that you know you’re going to be able to use this like a regular Smart Phone, but the actuality is that you will not be able to.


XYZ: It’s called an Apple phone for a reason!


Mike: What about the browser? Won’t that give you quite a bit to work with a developer for a third party?


MIKE A: Hey Ryan. I have two questions for ya.


MIKE A: Why when I search for gadgets on Google does Gizmodo come up above you?


Ryan: I, I don’t know.


MIKE A: And why did Gizmodo get it’s hands on the Iphone and you didn’t before it was launched?


Ryan: Ahh, you know I don’t know. You kow part of that was just because I forgot to set up an appointment with ahh---(laughing)---at MacWorld. Yeah and the other part of that was that my travel agent just booked me for absolutely no time after the keynote was over I went in there and grabbed some pictures then I was on my way to the airport. Umm…but you know, I would say that otherwise you know more or less blew out Gizmodo in the coverage. I mean, if you look up Iphone on Google we’re the # 5 result or whatever. I’m not even sure what Gizmodo does on the front page but it doesn’t even really matter, you know, Gizmodo did a really great job and ---


Hugh: Yeah they did.


Ryan: I don’t really see it as that type of competition.


Jason: They’re really not competition in my mind. I mean, they’re a great second place but---



MIKE A: It’s a life and death struggle according to Nick Denton.


Ryan: No, I wouldn’t exactly call it a life and death struggle but I, I thought we were talking about the Ipod and not Engadget vs. Gizmodo!


Hugh: Everything comes down to Gawker vs Weblogs Inc. in the end. We all know that. Every schoolchild knows this.


Hugh: You’re in denial if you think otherwise.


Jason: This is your baptism into the Not the Gillmor Gang


Jason: It’s about busting chops and it’s something that Mike Arrington and this crew is uniquely qualified to do and you will last for the first three or four times that you’re on Not-the-Gillmor-Gang.


Ryan: Oh ok.


Jason: Ryan…Ryan, um any other thoughts on the iPhone in terms of open and closed? I mean, obviously… just in general. Are open and closed systems good for their stock price versus good for users?


Ryan: You know, I mean it depends on which part of the system you are talking about, right? Umm…if you’re talking about not putting applications on the Iphone in, again you’re really deferring to the taste of one man and the decisions of one small portion of the Apple using population, namely Steve Jobs, to determine, what makes a good user base? And so far that’s pretty much has worked well and…everybody do this and everybody do that and everybody’s happy. But, that means… that works ok for some things like Itunes it works well with the vertical integration and maybe it’ll work well for the phone you won’t have all the problems with crashing apps, and, you know, stuff like - I have a Windows Mobile Phone and my phone crashes sometimes and I don’t know what’s causing it. You know, it could be any of my applications? I don’t know?


So I understand why they’re taking that position and making it first party development only but…like I said, my issue is really only with pretending that it’s not a closed device using nomenclature that implies that it’s an open device. Like Steve Jobs MONEY (magazine) quote where he was saying that Cingular doesn’t want it’s entire west coast network taken out because of some rogue application on an iPhone. That doesn’t happen. That’s never happened! There are more Smart Phones in the world now than there’s ever been and everyone’s running their own applications on them on their Smart Phone devices and no networks get taken out because of applications.


MIKE A: ….He was taking a swipe at the lack of security that Windows traditionally has more than anything.


Ryan: Well, no actually if you look at the smart phone market share most of the Smart Phones are in the world are Nokia devices. So, it’s really not a swipe at Windows, which is getting a bigger market share in the United States but it’s more than just a swipe at Smart Phones in general, which run applications, and it’s not…Again. It’s not about applications crashing cellular networks. That’s not possible. I mean, from a cellular network’s level that’s really just not the case.


MIKE A: But it could crash the system which could then takeout the phone and…


Jason: You can kill yourself but you can’t kill anyone on the network!


Dan: But, but I think the issue is more that , um, this is basically something that evolved out of an Ipod, and so it has all of the kind of sensibilities of an Ipod in terms of being more closed and controlled. But I think that this is just the first of what is going to be dozens of devices, mobile devices that will come out of Apple that will do all kinds of different things. That’’’ have bigger screens that will have a stylus, there’ll be a Mac tablet. They’ll be ones where you’ll go hey where you don’t want to deploy the phone technology—fine. You want to open it up to applications… I mean, I just think it’s just the beginning and, and uhh---


Hugh: It’s a thin client. It’s supposed to run apps and services.


Ryan: We shouldn’t over estimate Apple here. I mean - I don’t want to give them the benefit of the doubt on something like this because they think that they’re making the right decision by not putting a stronger polycarbonate coating on the Ipod and allowing it to get scratched every single time you take it out of the case! They think they’re making the right decision by making it first party only. Again, that’s why you’re relying on the taste of one man. You’re relying on Steve jobs to make the right decisions for the platform.


MIKE A: Ryan can’t come on the show anymore.


Hugh: Why cuz he’s so much smarter than all of us?


MIKE A: Yeah, cuz he knows way too much about this stuff.


Hugh: He just totally destroyed the whole---


MIKE A: Poly-carbonate?


Hugh: It’s like bringing in an expert on ---


Mike: Polycarbonite what?


Jason: Let me tell you something Ryan. I think you nailed it! The analogy I think told somebody was , that if you go to Masta, or Noble, and you order XYZ and the chef’s gonna make you whatever he wants and you’re gonna give him three, or four hundred bucks…That’s Steve Jobs! He’s the best. He does the best job. You don’t question it you just eat what he gives you. And if you don’t like that than you go to the all you can eat sushi bar…right?


Ryan: And for ten percent of the market that’s gonna be fine. Right?


Jason: Ah, listen, I’ve moved from the all you can eat sushi bar - and you know, and, and the fact that if I try to make a roll instead of putting the wrong things together - to the Mac environment because I don’t want to deal with IT anymore!


Hugh: So the big question is is this device, this Iphone gonna follow the trajectory of the Mac and only get ten percent of the market at best or is it gonna follow the trajectory of the Ipod and actually define the market?


Jason: Ok let’s go around the circle. I only want to hear one word. It’s gonna be either the Ipod or it’s gonna be the Mac. Go!


MIKE A: What’s the question?


Jason: Is it gonna follow the trajectory of the Ipod or Mac computers?


Mike: Ipod


Dan: Ipod


Ryan: Ipod


Mike: Neither


Doc: hah…Both!


Jason: I’m gonna say Ipod.


Mike: Is that all of us?


Jason: I think that’s everybody. Steve Gillmor, what do you think?



Hugh: The question we failed to bring up which is all of us----if you look at it versus the Ipod. The Ipod, if you take the ipod model, the ipod was launched into a remarkably lame and almost empty category.


Dan: that’s what I consider cell phones!


Hugh: No, no, no, no.


MIKE A: Yeah.


Hugh: …and all of the people who are making lame little mp3 players including Sony who wouldn’t make an mp3 player at all because they’re busy protecting their record business which it took one of the biggest competitors out of the market completely. and the cell phone business. I think, you know, they’re up against Nokia, and Motorola, and Eriksson, and ... All of these, they’re already in that business and they already know how to compete there and that….The question for me is whether or not what Steve’s gonna do is drive some kind of bargain with Cingular that is better than the bargains that Nokia gets and that that Nokia and Motorola gets with those same companies?


Ryan: Oh, there’s no doubt! There’s no doubt that----


Hugh: And so what is that bargain? What’s in that, cuz a lot of the record companies felt like he drove a bad bargain for them with the Itunes deal and ----


Jason: Why do you think Cingular did the deal? Who knows the answer to that question?


Ryan: Because they’re in last place. Because they’re in last place and they needed to do a deal – they need to have some sort of a game changing---


Mike: Wait, wait, wait… Cingular’s not in last place! Cingular’s in first place!

Cingular is the largest wireless provider in America.


Ryan: A lot of people consider the to be not the top offering in term’s of quality and support. The are the #1 provider Cingular - gets whatever the hell it wants, basically speaking. And when Apple approached them it seems very simple because Apple gets what it wants – it gets to sell it’s device with not a huge handset subsidy.


Jason: So why did they do it?


Ryan: It’s money. Cash. They’re gonna get a lot of people switching over because of that.


Hugh: Oh I, I think that Cingular takes one look at the Ipod and says Apple comes along with an Ipod that sells in their stores that’s also a phone and it’s a no-brainer. The rest of it’s all just dealing. Um…but there’s another aspect to this that’s worth mentioning which is that if, if right now you go into a Cingular store - actually right up until actually a few days ago if you went into a Cingular store with a Macintosh and you wanted to get some help in getting your Palm or some other phone to synch Bluetooth with it …they’d go and tell you to go fuck yourself because it was a Macintosh because they don’t want you in the store. You know, they only dealt with PC’s.


Ryan: Every wireless carrier? That’s not Cingular – that’s everybody.


Hugh: The one reason why I switched to Verizon is that Verizon at least baited and switched me when they sold me. They said “oh no, we work with Macs. We work with Linux – it’s not a problem’ and then after I got it then they told me it wasn’t supported.


DG: I had to go find a third party hack to get my Sprint card working on OS10.


Hugh: Yeah.


DG: They told me they would support it.


Jason: Next question. What comes out next? We had the Ipod come out then you had Ipod nano, then you had Ipod this, Ipod that… We have the Iphone. The other shoe’s going to drop. Is there gonna be, like a small Iphone with less features for girls that’s smaller? Is there gonna be a bigger one that would be like a… one laptop per child or that other cool handheld portable device? Ryan? What’s next?


Ryan: Ummm, you know honestly what I want to see next is I want to see the Iphone with the cell radio. I want to see them basically make that device without, you know--- Without making it a phone!


Ryan: I mean that’s what people want right? They want the wide screen, large screen, touch screen video Ipod. That’s why, I think the natural progression of the Ipod you use now is gonna eventually look like an Iphone, except it’s not gonna have a cell phone in it.


Jason: They’ll use the rest of that stuff for memory and more hard disk space.


Ryan: Right. Yeah, you know they’ll put a hard drive in there and do, do whatever you want with the platform but ah, get rid of the phone and then that way you don’t have to be tied down to Cingular in order to have that device.


MIKE A: Wait, Ryan. What about a the Iphone but without the 80 gigabytes of storage?


DG: I don’t think they can go hard drive on the form factor - they have to go flash right?


Ryan: They don’t want to. I mean Nokia’s got a hard drive based phone and Samsung has a hard drive based phone too. Umm, I mean they can do it they just don’t want to I mean there’s no real reason. The flash is cheap enough at this point. They have enough partner deals with Samsung in order to get a low profile flash memory that they can just basically pump these Iphones out in huge numbers with a lot of margin on it. If they were to go to the hard drive it would be not a whole lot more memory in there. You’d have a much larger device and their margins would go down significantly.


Jason: So then battery life?


DG: They gain a lot of real estate for the physical dimensions by dropping the hard drive.


Ryan: Yeah absolutely.


DG: Cram it with other stuff and perhaps uh… There’s this issue with the battery though that I think is an interesting one where if you cant switch out the battery and you’ve got to give up the device when your battery flags? I mean, that’s not gonna work!


Ryan: That’s Apple.


Hugh: I think that the next thing that they SHOULD come out with is the, and I don’t know if they will or not or if it’s even feasible but it, its up their alley: a good amateur but production high def video camera. Right now there’s a whole in that market. Sony’s camera, high def camera, 1080i camera, really doesn’t want to get along with Macs at all. And, Canon’s competitor doesn’t even have a microphone input. You really can’t do any cool production with it. Both Canon and Sony are really doing a very strong job of maintaining this distance between their professional and their consumer goods and I think Apple wants to be in on the home video production business in a much bigger way than they are right now.


DG: Alright so the answer to Jason’s question as to what comes next? It’s not the Iphone that comes in a different variety. There’s gonna be a different dock for different things so if you had a little dock that’s probably 8x6 inches that this thing could slide into. It’s got a video camera so you’re in a video camera production mode using this device as your input /output in management. Or if you’re in enterprise you slip it in and it becomes something that you can do… you know a different kind of punch pad. Or, if you’re a UPS or a FEDEX guy you slide it in and it can be used as a mobile transportation coordination device. So if they were smart they would come up with a half a dozen sleeves like the equivalent of a physical skin that is more tailored to the inputs and output of a specific use.


Jason: Ok. How irrelevant is Microsoft at this point?


Ryan: Ahh, not at all. In fact, and this is the thing that really bummed me out the most about the Iphone. Microsoft has had a new version of their Mobile Operating System called Windows Mobile which has been in development for a couple of years called Photon. It’s gotten a lot of discussion in the community but not from a lot of people because really only the people who worked on it and maybe a handful of ten or fifteen, uhh, like, high proile bloggers and analysts have actually seen it. And, you know, I saw it originally two years ago, and it looked as good if not better than the Iphone looks now! And so when Microsoft launches the Photon and Photon gets on the market and people see this new operating system from Windows Mobile in a year or two, they’re gonna be like “Oh my god. Microsoft----


MIKE A: C’mon. Ryan, what phone do you use?


Ryan: I use Windows Mobile Phone.


Jason: Sounds terrible.


Ryan: What’s that? It sounds terrible?


MIKE A: Which one do you use?


Ryan: called in DoPod 838 pro.




Hugh: You can’t get it.


Jason: It’s from Japan.


Mike: It wont be launched until 2014. I have a Motorola Q which has been used for quite a while using Window something or rather and I, um, it’s a good day when it doesn’t crash on me and I have to pull the battery out. So I don’t want to hear about Windows Mobile. I just don’t want to hear about it until it stops crashing. And Photon or Radar or whatever its called it’s just more bloat-ware that you, know …who cares?


Jason: If it doesn’t crash it’s not Windows. That’s their slogan.


Ryan: Then again, Microsoft took a very visible design and, uhhh, a very visible turn towards design and I think that’s kind of a hallmark of Windows. Even Windows Moble is that it’s not designed for people. It’s not designed for human beings to use. It’s really crappy to actually use every single day but you do anyways because it works.


Ryan: I mean their new version is going to be out in a year or two and looks great! For years it’s been behind the scenes by the time it comes out it’s just gonna look like a crappy Apple when in fact it’s been around for years in development.


Hugh: There I a possibility that this could focus Microsoft in a way that they wouldn’t have focused before when it comes to the importance of the mobile device because, as someone else mentioned, this is going to drive a lot more adoption of other Apple products which is really gonna hurt Microsoft. Therefore, they have to come out with a worthwhile reaction to this in the marketplace and they cant wait two years to do it. It is possible that this could focus Microsoft and they could actually get their stuff together.


Ryan: So it’s a modern day Netscape!


Hugh: That’s true. I could be that thing that’s the Pearl Harbor that really awakens the sleeping tiger.


Jason: Ted Leonsis said, ‘ The Internet will be Microsoft’s Vietnam!’


Jason: : Does anybody remember that quote?


DG: No.




DG: Its’ a damn good quote though.


Jason: Cuz he said that Microsoft was gonna get killed.


Hugh: Well, they’ve tried to. They’ve tried to reverse the influence of the Internet and every time they do it they …there’s just too much of a market impetus towards it. So they just, they can’t buck the Internet. They can only staunch their own slide in terms of their hegemony.


Jason: What happens when Bill Gates resigns or I’m sorry retires next year?


Ryan: You know I asked him that very question. I wanted to know when Ray Aussie takes over as chief software architect and he didn’t seem to think that there was that they were going through that much of a sea change at Microsoft. I mean, you know he, picked Ray Aussie when they acquired his company and he pretty much groomed him to take over for when he eventually does retire. So, I’m not sure. I don’t know that we’re going to see that big of a change for Microsoft.


Hugh: I don’t think so. I mean. He hasn’t been a chief architect for quite a while he’s been too busy giving speeches and cheerleading and dealing with his foundation.


Jason: Does anybody else want to know? Because I’ll tell you after you guys are done speculating.


Hugh: If these live offerings are for the future you can access them through safari on an Iphone, right? So what’s the difference there?


Jason: Ok –


Hugh: Remember who was up onstage with Steve Jobs. It was Google and it was Yahoo. And they’re gonna have tailor made services to go into this Iphone interface that’s gonna make MSN or Microsoft Live---


Jason: GMail on a blackberry!


Hugh: That’s just a start.


Jason: Amazing! Does anybody else have any speculation about what’s gonna happen to Microsoft when Bill Gates retires?


Doc: Uhh, Nothing.


Jason: Nothing?


Doc: nothing. I think he’s already retired actually. The interesting thing for me is that Microsoft has not--…The interesting thing for me is that Apple is a competitive company. Microsoft has ceased being a competitive company. Google has ceased being a competitive company.


Jason: Why?


Doc: Because they don’t eat meat anymore! They’re not aggressive. I mean, there are so many opportunities that Microsoft just hasn’t taken advantage of—


Jason: Mike Arrington, what happens? What happens at Microsoft when Bill Gates retires?


Mike: I think, you know I almost did a prediction…everyone does these predictions and I thought a lot about doing one for the end of the year and I didn’t because some of the flak I would have taken. My predictions, the biggest one is: Isn’t what Microsoft launches as new products because they’ll continue to do interesting things and make money at least for the immediate term. And thank god, Steve isn’t on the call to trash me for that. But, I think if they continue to sort of get their butts kicked by Google in the online space and if Yahoo continues to go sideways and Panama doesn’t work out; I think it’s um, it’s reasonable to assume that Microsoft could make a move to acquire Yahoo this year. And I think that that would be a pretty interesting combination. So, I’m more interested in what they do in the online space cuz you, know, most of their software I’m not that interested in in general. So, that’s what I would look for.


Jason: Ok. Does anybody else have any thoughts on what happens to Microsoft of should I just tell you guys…


Ryan: Um, I’ve been hanging out with a lot of Miscrosoft people in the last couple of months, and, um, they seem to think “Well, we have to reinvent ourselves right now boys or else…Jesus we’re in trouble!” So there is a lot of excitement and trepidation from my conversation with what Microsoft has done.


Jason: Ok, so here is the correct answer: Microsoft is gonna break up into two or three parts. The first thing to go will maybe be the products, like Xbox, and while they’re working on that…Next will be applications and the next will be operating systems.


Mike: C’mon.


Ryan: It’s funny Jason cuz you know that was my follow up question: when I asked Bill Gates what happens when Microsoft leaves and I said ‘Nothing” and I said ‘they’re going to split up into three different companies” And he said, “No, we have absolutely no intention of doing that.’ I mean maybe they will but—


Jason: I’ll tell you why it’s going to happen. It’s getting harder and harder for them to be competitive and for him, on a very personal level, he wants to give as much money to charity as possible and change the world as much as possible and some banker is going to come to him and explain to him that those three companies separated will make him more money than together and then he’ll be able to liquidate his investments as they split.


Mike: No. Jason that never happens with huge companies unless there’s antitrust issues and the government forces it. I mean, is there a single example that you can point to that’s happened before?


Jason: Yeah absolutely. Time-Warner, sold a bunch of it’s assets and also , um, you have Viacom that split up.


MIKE A: Whoa, whoa. See selling off someone’s assets that arent’ core---


Jason: Viacom, MTV, and CBS split in half.


Hugh: Even General Electric has done this. They’ve taken half of their good units like they’ve got their GE Plastics unit up for sale now. If you’re a conglomerate you have to remake yourself. You have to find new markets to be in. And you slough off the older markets before they’re dead while you can still get a good return on them.


Jason: Yeah. It’s like they’re becoming mutual funds so, for him, if he looks at it as one big mutual fund it better to—


Mike: Uhh, I think, in the in the 80’s you saw some companies, really big companies start to bulk up and become these conglomerates with lots of different business lines. And sure, you know I can see you know, Ford, selling off their financial division at some point if that didn’t make sense, but I don’t think there’s an example of a homegrown company that has sort of ripped itself apart voluntarily because you know, as some investment banker has confirmed or convinced them that in the short term that that will help the stock price…


Jason: Not the short term but maybe a long-term game.


Ryan: There aren’t a lot of examples but we can look back and say that’s what they should have done and be better off if they had. I think Microsoft, I think the logic is there, as Jason’s pointing out…I do not think that they will do it but I think there’s a good case for it.

Jason: Well, I think there’s very few leaders who can keep something together that is that big! And you can see it’s coming apart already.


Mike: What are the big interdependencies that drive business from one Microsoft unit to the other? They’re not really there.


Jason: Not anymore. And that’s about right, cuz it hold them back. Xbox, um, did better when it was in it’s own group. Right?


Mike: Is Xbox selling more Windows PCs? Are Windows PCs selling more Windows servers? I’m not sure?


Dana: I think that Sony will rip itself apart before Microsoft does.


Hugh: That’s probably true because they’re in self-destruct mode. They’re crashing - they’re burning.


Jason: They may do it inadvertently.


Hugh: The problem is that they it makes too much money that it can’t really remake itself. It’s stuck. The problem is that it’s stuck by it’s success.


Jason: OK, well. We’re coming to the end of the sow. I want to thank everybody for being on Not-the-Gillmor Gang, also known as Calacanis Cast Beta #9. This show is in beta. This show is sponsored by Podtech.net. Everybody loves Podtech.net is that correct or not correct?


Ryan: We do. We love ‘em.


Jason: Everybody?


MIKE A: No, they just, one of their has bloggers ripped some kind of videocast in Chinese saying that there’s a rumor that I wear woman’s underwear.


Jason: Oh really. I didn’t know that that was a rumor I thought that was confirmed?


Mike: Ha ha. I , pretty desperate attempt at page views. So, I have a little issue with John Ferry right now but other than that I love Podtech.


Jason: You love Podtech? Everyone loves Scobel cuz Scobel’s on Podtech. Correct? Doc, love Podtec and Scobel?


Doc: I love Scobel independently of that.



Mike: I have lukewarm feelings towards Scobel.


Jason: Alright.


Doc: Do you want to unpack that a little bit?


Mike: No, I’m just kidding like everybody else.


Jason: Let’s all thank Podtech, Podtech, Podtech.net. And let’s all thank Godaddy. GoDaddy, we love GoDaddy, the best registrar of domains you can go to. They’re sponsoring the show and all that money goes to charity which helps kids go to great high schools and get a chance in life. We think that’s a start and we think that’s a wonderful thing and we want you to go there and buy domain names. Use the code! What’s the code Mike Arrington?


Mike: Jason1.


Jason: And that’s JASON 1. Who on this call loves GoDaddy?


Ryan: I love GoDaddy.


Mike: Yeah I like GoDaddy, but I think you should, I think that we should be thanking Steve Gillmor.


Hugh: I love Steve Gillmore more.


DG: How bout a kumbaya moment for Steve?


Jason: Yeah, that sounds good.


Hugh: Yeah. Big kumbaya for Steve…just don’t link to him.


Jason: Steve was a great man. And I think that every year we should do the show in tribute to him. And I think that we’ll do the next one at his - we should plant a tree for Steve.


Mike: He’s not dead! You know.


Jason: He’s not dead? Somebody told me he was dead and that’s how the Gillmor Gang re-formed.




Hugh: I’m so happy! He’s alive! I thought Adam Curry killed Steve?


Hugh: When will they lift the gag order?


Jason: Did see that on Adam Curry’s predictions? Where he predicted that , like, Steve Gillmore would quit and nobody would care?


MIKE A: Yeah. That was so low class that was such…terrible!


Hugh: Hey we really need an Adam Curry impersonation right now.


Jason: Hey everybody it’s Adam Curry from the Daily Source Code. Let me just tell you something…Steve Gillmore, nobody cares alright! Hey everybody cares about me and y big hair I look as ok as I did in the 80’s. Yeah! And my lovely wife Paticia, she’s hot! I may get some tonight. Whoa! Gillmore Gang sucks balls!


Mike: Jason, when are you going to announce the startup that you are not doing?


Jason: I’ll announce the startup that I’m not-doing when I figure it out. So, anybody else on the call think that Adam Curry is low class for kicking Steve when he was down? Please speak up now.


Hugh: Oh Yeah. That black poster I was referring to was ridiculous. I mean, it, ahh…it was such a low class move.


Dana: Jason you said it before “All business is personal”


Jason: It’s very personal. And I think that that means that everybody on the podcast formerly known as the Gillmore Gang should rally together and give a big FU to Adam Curry.


Jason: Doc?


Doc: No, I don’t think we need to give an FU to anybody. In fact I think Adam was trying to be funny and failed.


Jason: Yeah he did. I agree with that. But I do think that you gotta know better than to kick a guy when he is down, even if you’re joking. Which is not right.


Ryan: Especially when you’re his boss and you kick him when he’s down.

Jason: You know you never talk bad about talent. You know. That’s always one of the things I never understood about Nick Denton. He was always bad mouthing his former bloggers - Always bad form.


Hugh: Well, the other thing is you don’t pick fights with people that are smaller than you. And you know, when it’s you defending your business against a guy who’s trying to feed his family. You, know, you’re not going to win. So, whether you are right not and in this case he’s dead wrong! So, I, just, I, bad form all around. Not funny. Not good. Stupid. And, uh, it’s gonna hurt him in the long run.


Jason: Ok, Adam Curry. I know you’re listening to CalcanisCast because you’re obsessed with it and, ahh, you’ll call in the next show and we’ll have Adam Curry on to explain himself. I want to thank Doc. I want to thank Dana. I want to thank Ryan. I want to thank Dan. I want to thank Hugh for not breathing like he’s dying. I want to thank Mike Arrington for showing up and gracing us with his presence. And of course I want to thank Ryan Block for being a genius and making us all look smart by his presence on the podcast next time use a landline. You can talk about how great Windows Mobile phones are but if we can’t hear you on the call it’s really not that big of a—


Mike: I think you thanked Ryan twice?


Jason: I’m thanking Ryan again.


Ryan: HaHa


Jason: He made me look good.


DG: How often are you going to do these Not-the-Gillmor gangs?


Jason: This is CalcanisCast Beta #9. It’ll be beta # 10 next week. I don’t know. Is anybody going to be around next week?


Hugh: I’ll be around.


Ryan: I don’t know. I may or may not be on the road.


Mike: Seriously. I’ll be around, but Ryan just can’t be on these. It’s not—


Jason: Way too intelligent for us, right? You know what the problem is with his arguments? There’s too many facts!



Mike: Yeah no one gave him the memo saying that facts were irrelevant to this show


Dana: This is an opinion show, isn’t it?


Jason: Exactly. When did facts ever play a part in Not-the-Gillmor Gang?


Mike: Take that guy out. Will you, Jason?


Jason: I will. Alright. I love all you guys. I’m gonna be up in the valley the 24 th and 25th. We have to have the 24th and 25th in the valley…maybe we’ll all have dinner or something?


Ok, I love you all.


Cheers, Bye.

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